google.com, pub-2774194725043577, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0 L.A.Times Crossword Corner: Monday, November 8, 2010 Neville L. Fogarty

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Nov 8, 2010

Monday, November 8, 2010 Neville L. Fogarty

Theme: *Astic - The first word in the four longest entries have identical ending letters.

17A. Last resort actions: DRASTIC MEASURES

27A. 2009 Clooney/Streep film based on a Roald Dahl book: FANTASTIC MR. FOX. A stop-motion animated film.

44A. Scrunchie, e.g.: ELASTIC HAIR TIE. Image.

55A. Kitschy lawn ornament: PLASTIC FLAMINGO. We had one of these that would move on to a new lawn in the middle of the night.

Argyle here.

Even with the grid-spanning entries, I still found this puzzle IFFY. I don't want to KVETCH but a few duds dull the KARMA of the whole, starting with 1A. The total word & block count are quite low for a Monday.

Across:

1. Like 20 Questions questions : YES/NO. Where is the OR? It is like saying a True/False quiz.

6. Put together, as a book : BIND

10. Ratchets (up) : AMPS. Explanation from Spinal Tap.

14. Halloween option : TREAT. Belated entry.

15. Over, in Germany : ÜBER

16. Loughlin of "90210" : LORI. Image. This TV series premiered on The CW in 2008.

20. Celery pieces : STALKS

21. Icy space streakers : COMETS. The comets are made of dirty ice.

22. "The way I see it," in online shorthand : IMO. "...in my opinion..."

24. Sorrow : WOE

25. __ moment: sudden realization : AHA

26. Vote against : NAY

31. Display ostentatiously : FLAUNT. Ostentatious - adj. - characterized by pretentious, showy, or vulgar display.

32. Landlord's contract : LEASE

33. Holler : YELL

34. "__ the season to be jolly ..." : 'TIS. Ho, ho, ho!

35. Soccer moms' transports : VANS

39. Malia Obama's sister : SASHA. Number two First Daughter.

42. Gripe and grouse : KVETCH

47. "One Day __ Time" : AT A. TV show, opening theme. Video

48. Pull a scam on : CON

49. Dali display, say : ART

50. Biblical beast : ASS

51. Abandon on an island : MAROON

53. Giorgio known for snazzy suits : ARMANI. And something to go with that suit: 40D. Fancy scarf : ASCOT

59. Peru's capital : LIMA

60. Message passed in class : NOTE

61. Like some gases : INERT

62. Posing no challenge : EASY

63. Glittery rock style typified by David Bowie : GLAM. Short for glamorous.

64. Lymphatic tissue masses : NODES

Down:

1. Since Jan. 1, on a financial report : YTD. Year To Date.

2. Botch something up : ERR

3. Like corn and apples : SEASONAL

4. Condé __ Publications : NAST. Condé Nast (1873 – 1942) was the founder of Condé Nast Publications, a leading American magazine publisher known for publications such as Vanity Fair and Vogue.

5. From Canada's capital : OTTAWAN

6. Water carrier : BUCKET

7. PCs from Big Blue : IBMs. International Business Machines (IBM) headquartered in Armonk, NY.The Big Blue nickname, substantiated by people who worked for IBM at the time, is the term coined by field representatives in the 1960s, and referred to the color of the mainframes IBM installed in the 1960s and early 1970s.

8. Maiden name lead-in : NÉE

9. Old Greek coin : DRACHMA. It was still in use until replaced by the Euro.

10. Former student : ALUM

11. Rita who shouted "Hey you guys!" on "The Electric Company" : MORENO. Here's the famous "Hey you guys!" sketch with Bill Cosby. Clip. (2:16)

12. Before the state's cut, as income : PRETAX

13. Actress Spacek : SISSY

18. Words of defeat : "I LOST"

19. Flies in the clouds : SOARS

22. Uncertain : IFFY

23. Masculine : MALE

25. Top poker pair : ACES

28. Oklahoma oil city : TULSA

29. Hipbone-related : ILIAC

30. Flu symptom : FEVER

34. Like a fine line : THIN

36. Reached, as goals : ATTAINED

37. Mark Harmon military TV drama : NCIS. Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

38. Women : SHEs

41. Saint Stephen's punishment for blasphemy : STONING. I had no idea there were so many depictions of this event. Painting.

42. Destiny : KARMA

43. A, B, C, D, E, or K : VITAMIN

44. And others: Latin : ET ALIA

45. '80s-'90s Anaheim Stadium NFL team : LA RAMS. Football.

46. Apollo Theater site : HARLEM. New York City.

47. More than enough : AMPLE

52. "The Star-Spangled Banner" start : "O SAY"

53. Mennen shaving lotion : AFTA

54. El __: climate pattern : NINO

56. KFC's Sanders, e.g. : COL. That finger-lickin' Colonel.

57. Univ. sr.'s exam : GRE. Graduate Record Examination (GRE), a commercially run standardized test that is an admission requirement for many graduate schools in the United States.

58. NBA tiebreakers : OTs. National Basketball Association/OverTimes.

Answer grid.

Argyle

42 comments:

  1. Morning, all!

    I assume Dennis is still off enjoying his vacation?

    I found this slightly more challenging than our typical Monday fare. Part of that was words like DRACHMA, which you don't usually see on a Monday. The other part was stupid mistakes on my part, such as putting in OBER instead of UBER for 15A and then wondering what the heck a BOCKET is...

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  2. Good Morning, Argyle and Friends. I had a bit of trouble getting traction. I agree with you, Argyle, that YES NO required an "or". I immediately recognized DRASTIC MEASURES, and from there it was smooth sailing. I knew to look for that ASTIC ending.

    There were no real AHA moments for me today, but I liked the A, B, C, D, E or K = VITAMINS.

    The mascot of one of the local Mardi Gras krews is the Pink Flamingo. The lawn ornaments are plastered all over the city in the weeks leading up to the krewe's parade and ball.

    QOD: After one look at this planet, any visitor from outer space would say, "I want to see the manager." ~ William S. Burroughs.

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  3. Good morning Argyle and all, as already been said this was a somewhat more challenging puzzle for a Monday. I got the theme early and it helped, but I still struggled to complete the puzzle. I did not know “drachma” “Armani and 43D “vitamins”. Vitamins finally revealed itself when kvetch came crawling out of the recess of my mind.

    Overall, I did not like this puzzle as it did not seem to have a flow to it like yesterday’s did.

    Hope you all have a great Monday. Mine is getting better as all but five of our 12 weekend house guests have headed for home. Maybe the cats will now reappear.

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  4. Good Morning C.C.,Argyle and all,

    Thanks for the write-up, Argyle.

    I agree with Barry; this was the tuoughest Monday puzzle, I can remember.
    Drachma and Yesno were not readily available in my mind. Also amps wasn't right up front for me.
    I had no knowledge of Fantastic Mr Fox.
    Perps and wags got me through. I would say Vitamins was the best tricky clue.
    I've been on a very busy schedule,and have not have time to blog. All medical related, but for neighbor and best friend. Think all is going to be okay; the distances involved- from the 'sticks' to the cities have contributed lots of extra driving.
    time.

    This is the week of CA's return; I think the 9th. Hope its been good for them.

    Have a nice day everyone.

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  5. Good morning:

    Yhank you Argyle. I really could not find much to say about the puzzle; the theme was consistent and the cluing was fine. As to the Yes/No needing an or, test makers create YES/NO or TRUE/FALSE Tests. There is an implied Slash or HYPHEN .

    Dennis it is warming up, but them it is in the whole country.

    Have a great week

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  6. Good Morning Argyle, C.C. et al.

    Great write-up Argyle - loved the link to Rita MORENO. One of the blogs on that page said they remembered their teacher playing it in school and wondering if they had VCR's back then? Hmmm...I guess that must have been just after the caveman discovered fire??? LOL

    The puzzle was easy today with only two glitches - I had STicKS in stead of STALKS for 20 A and HoRnEt instead of HARLEM for 46 D (I read the clue for 45 D by mistake when filling in that one). Other than those two, pretty much of a speed run.

    Barry G.,
    I also hesitated on 15A "UBER" and wondered if they meant it or "ober". But correctly, "uber" means "Above", while "ober" means "upper", as in “Oberbayern”, or "Upper Bavaria". I have spent a lot of thime in that beautiful region. It is where you will find the famous
    “ Neuschwanstein Castle”. Many of you would recognize it from the fairy castle at Disneyland, which is a copy of the one in Germany.

    Enough of the German lesson for today - I just wanted to give you all a pretty link to look at ;-D

    Have a great one - here, we have our first snow on the ground. Cats decided to forgo their normal morning patrol outside, and sit by the radiator instead. I don't blame them!

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  7. Good morning everyone. Good write-up, Argyle.

    A little harder than the usual Monday. Switched from horizontal to vertical often, but the perps were ample. Quickly got the rhythm of the theme. PLASTIC FLAMINGO was a WAG as was MORENO. DRACHMA was a gimme. Got KVETCH easily this time because of all the prior "lessons".

    Here is a picture of Balaam's Ass by Rembrandt van Rijn.

    Here is a shantychor singing Über uns der blaue Himmel, 'Over us, the blue sky'

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  8. Good morning all!

    Thanks Hahtool and Spitz for saving me the trouble of teaching German today. All my pix of Oberbayern predate my digital camera and I haven't digitalized any of them yet. Also, the link was a nice reminder of how much Germans love to sing--on busses or anywhere they are together.

    I actually enjoyed the CW today, true, a little more interesting than normal Mondays, but not at all difficult. The names were well known and there were no sport clues! Hoorah!

    My only erasure was having guessed there's be an R at the end of 6D, and having to change it when perps revealed BUCKET. I didn't even see MALE or O SAY, since perps took care of them.

    YES/NO seems fine to me.

    I thought the theme was a bit weak, since other than the spelling, there really is no concept to link all the ASTICs. I thought about the meaning of AST in German (tree branch), which would have been neat if the grid had linked them all with a unifying TREE somewhere, but that connection would be impossible for most people to grok.

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  9. Of course I meant to say "there'd be an R".

    Another possibility for the ASTICs could have been a switch from P to T (e.g. eel in ASPIC) unified with a PT (phy. ed.) or TP (toilet paper) concept. Nah, still too vague.

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  10. Good morning Argyle, ET ALIA

    Hey, it's Monday! I slid through this one without any trouble except for putting "noble" instead of "inert" for those gases on the first pass across. The first down pass revealed that error, it was easily corrected and I wasn't AS TICked off as I could have been. The second across pass filled almost everything else, including all of the grid spanners. I don't watch sitcoms and very few movies so actor/actress names, titles etc. tend to slow me down. Fortunately, I've seen references to many of them and a few perps will give me an AHA moment. (anyone on this blog that didn't get that clue?)

    No kvetching from me about the puzzle today. Writing this blog entry took longer than solving the CW.

    Have a happy one, everyone.

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  11. Good day folks,

    Lots of trouble today, but did OK until I reached the South, where I finally gave up. Kitschy was a new expression and by having Acta instead of Afta, Pink Flamingo never entered my mind. On top of which I had a total meltdown on the Apollo's location.

    It probably wouldn't have made a difference, but our paper didn't have a clue for 58D. Anyone else run into that?

    Oh well, things can only go uphill from here. From snowy CT., enjoy your Monday.

    Hondo

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  12. Good morning, Argyle, C.C. and gang - greetings from (not) sunny, (not) warm south Florida.

    I liked this puzzle for a Monday; not so simple that it's just filling in blanks with little thought. I thought it was pretty neat getting words like 'kvetch' and 'drachma' into a Monday-level puzzle -- that can't be easy, especially fitting in perps. The 'astic' theme, apparent after the first two theme entries, made the last two very easy.

    Argyle, nice job on the blog - always a fun read.

    Gonna head home tomorrow morning; the Marine Corps birthday is Wednesday, and some of my old Vietnam buddies are coming into Philly for the annual 10,000-strong gathering there. Should be an interesting day.

    Hope it's a great day for everyone.

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  13. Good Morning Argyle, et alia, I got a little “spastic” when I had no idea on 1A but once I got the proverbial toehold, it was a pleasant enough puzzle. I had to see some of the answers were in Argyle’s nice write-up since the answers came so fast there was no need to address every clue.

    I too have been to Neuschwanstein and remember walking up the hill (had to pay to use the rest room halfway up) and being passed by horse carriages and buses. On the way down, our toes were in the front of our shoes because of the incline. It is a very beautiful place with breathtaking views that mask some of the things crazy King Ludwig II and Wagner did up there!! Ain’t it amazin’ what lazy heirs can do with money that they did not have to earn?

    Isn’t it pathetic that there are still places in the world where stoning is thought of as appropriate punishment?

    It is so dry here in Nebraska and the jet stream is staying so far north that it will get over 70 again today! That means more golf but as of this week, “The days dwindle down to a precious few!” with thanks to Jimmy Durante! Well at least my Christmas Lights are up

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  14. My point on 1Across. Like 20 Questions questions: would be that it is an oral game and and explain it to a new player, you would tell them their questions have to be answered with a "YES OR NO", not "YESNO".

    Check out Lemonade714's HYPHEN link. It is a vocabularytest where you are to check if you recognize a word as being a word. I would like to see the answer sheet for that one because I'll bet some of the phony words we would know. Test.

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  15. p.s. We have a questionable fund raising activity here at our school. Some kids have MANY plastic flamingos and put them all in someone's yard (like their science teacher's) and will remove them if you donate to their cause. Oh well, I can buy just so much wrapping paper and so many candles.

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  16. Hello Puzzlers - I have long thought that Yiddish words are generally a hoot, and KVETCH is right up near the top. My favorite is probably "schlepp".

    Enjoyed today's links, Argyle! One question: did you already know about the Spinal Tap video, or did it show up in a search?

    HeartRx - We're feeling a bit lucky out here west of you, nothing but rain.

    Hand up for climbing that steep road to Neuschwanstein. It was hot in Bavaria that day, too. Worth it, though.

    Husker - Your Christmas lights picture reminds me of the time I assisted my Aussie hosts in putting up decorations in December. It's pretty hot in Queensland that time of year. Somehow it feels odd to put up a fake snowman in 90° heat...

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  17. Husker said:
    Isn’t it pathetic that there are still places in the world where stoning is thought of as appropriate punishment?

    --Yes, it's what can happen when you mix church and state, or religion with politics.

    Dudley,
    I know what you mean--only it's not quite so hot in Sydney. But the dinner we always had was cold pre-baked ham with salads, to be slept off on the beach afterwards. What always felt strange to me were the cards with snowy scenes on them--not from overseas either. Now they tend more to be local scenes with humorous Oz content than they were then.

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  18. Thanks, Argyle. Morning C.C. and all.

    I thought it was just me, but I see others had a little trouble with this Monday puzzle. What is usually a 10-15 minute run was 26 minutes today. I wanted HARLEM to have two "As" like the one in the Netherlands but it wouldn't fit. Didn't know MORENO or FANTASTICMRFOX, but they fell to perps. Had suvs instead of VANS. It wasn't until I found NCIS that the fog cleared.

    Had a good weekend. Saturday was DH's birthday. We didn't do anything special, but it was good anyway. The chocolate cake was too much, though.

    Didn't sleep well last night, so I'm off to recoup some of that.

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  19. Hi all - It is Monday, right????
    This puzzle kicked my backside for quite a while. I finally got a few answers (starting with 20A) and still struggled. Could not figure out what 1D was because I did not want to put YES NO in 1A.

    I did get 52D but wanted to put "OH" instead of "O"...just like the other day when we had the prayer opening "O LORD". Why is it not "OH"?

    All in all, I thought this was more difficult than most Monday puzzles, but it's more fun if it isn't a complete speed-run....even if I do GRIPE AND GROUSE about it :)

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  20. Hello everyone!

    Great write-up as usual, Argyle.

    Puzzle took more thought than usual Monday.

    I blogged yesterday, if anyone beside Splynter cares to read it!

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  21. Hello, Santa, C.C. and fellow puzzlers.

    Great blog, as usual, Argyle. No time for links at the moment. Later.

    Luckily, this was EASY for me and after the first two theme answers, i sussed the theme. I find numerous ELASTICHAIRTIES after my granddaughter leaves so that was a given.

    The only IFFY one was whether OBER or UBER was correct; BUCKET decided it and from there on it was a TREAT to finish.

    I can tell you I'm still exhausted from yesterday's tamale making session. Even though we had plenty of help, the 6:30-8:00 day for this old lady was wicked.

    I'm off to the gym, but when I have a chance I'll post some pics; we made 38 dozen and had enough ingredients laft over for more, so we'll repeat the process next Sunday!

    Have a wonderful Monday! Great 70s temps here.

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  22. Yes, Dudley, I knew "11". One of my all-time favorite comedies, like Airplane, Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein, etc.

    On another note...I found many sites have the start to the anthem as "O! say can you see...."

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  23. Afternoon Argyle, CC and All,

    Definitely a higher challenge than most Mondays. Had to do some erasing. My memory of High School German failed me when I wrote Ober instead of Uber. Drachma and Fantastic Mr. Fox cross needed red letter help and was the only assist needed other than perps. Nice puzzle.

    Great write up Argyle! As is the norm.

    Burned it at both ends this weekend and paying for it. The wedding was fun but two late nights in a row!?? Left early yesterday to get the youngest home for B-ball practice then the football banquet and ended the day with black belt class. Topping it all off is that it rained all weekend and everyone has a water problem on this wet Monday. Its all good though, Monday is almost over.

    Have a good one.

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  24. Hi gang -

    I think we've seen YES-NO before haven't we?

    I thought the theme was cute - like that scrunchie pic.

    I also thought this was a pretty good Monday puzzle, and not much harder than usual. The ones that cause me trouble, others find easy. Go figure.

    If you're gong to the Apollo Theater, here is the quickest way to Harlem.

    Cheers!
    JzB

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  25. Jazzbumpa,

    One of my earlier LAT puzzles (I believe it predates this blog's coverage of the LAT puzzle) had YES-NO in it, so there's a good chance you have seen it before, as I'm not the only one to use it, I bet :)

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  26. Dudley,
    Only 50 miles - but what a difference in the weather! Anyway, the snow is almost all gone now, so the cats eventually decided to gird their loins and brave the outdoors...for about 10 minutes.

    Thanks for stopping by Neville! I had no problem with "YESNO" in 1A. It's been used many times in xwords. I found the fill to be rather enjoyable for a Monday, and liked seeing "KVETCH" and "ET ALIA". Stared for a long time at "LARAMS" before the AHA moment when I realized it was L.A. RAMS !

    Keep warm / stay cool everyone, depending on what part of the country you are in !

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  27. Good afternoon Argyle, CC, et al., Good job, Argyle, as always. I liked this puzzle. The cluing was fresh and challenging but doable. Very fun ‘IMO’. Y/N w/out the ‘or’ didn’t bother me. T/F is common at school but always w/the slash mark or hyphen. As always, loved the reference to our dear resident Santa in “tis” and loved your 3 fine Ho’s. Karma’s good, Santa. I hope you’re taking your ‘vitamin’s and getting ready for some ‘seasonal’ fun. I have your ‘treat’s right here.

    50A ‘Biblical beast’ reminded me of a joke that says that Mary, the blessed virgin and mother of Jesus, was a real ‘kvetch’ing nag -she rode Joseph’s ‘ass’ all the way to Bethlehem.

    On that ‘iffy’‘note’ I went to work. No ‘yell’ing at kids who have been ‘stoning’ in the parking lot today b/c it’s a teacher work day and grades were due by noon. I worked at a ‘fever’ pitch then ‘afta’wards, played pool w/my ‘male’ buds who ‘ar-man-I’nough to say ‘I lost’ and not feel like a ‘sissy’. It's all good.

    Dennis: speaking of games, congratulations on the Eagles win. Great game. Vick is amazing. He was the talk at school - his alma mater. The guy can thread a needle and doing it running. So glad that the injured Colt is ok.

    Enjoy your day.

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  28. Hello everybody.

    Argyle, thanks for the writeup and the links.

    Fermatprime, I read your post yesterday. Argyle, I saw your "Hello?" last night, too.

    I liked the puzzle today. Lots of terrific fill. Interesting how some of us find easy the same parts that others find hard, and vice versa, as Jazzbumpa pointed out. To me, the gimmes include LORI, TIS, ARMANI, SASHA, IMO, YTD, NCIS, LIMA, NINO, and AHA. I didn't know if this time it was going to be ET ALII or ET ALIA, so I left the last letter blank until I got EASY. Wasn't it ET ALII in a recent puzzle? Same story with _BER: I left the first letter blank in case it might turn out to be OBER.

    Loved the VITAMINS clue. Got KVETCH after getting the K and V together. I thought DRACHMA is awesome and not too hard for a Monday. It's all subjective anyway.

    Best wishes to you all.

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  29. Jazz,
    Couldn't get the YouTube vid to open, but I'm guessing that would be the A Train?

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  30. Hola Everyone, What some found difficult today, I found to be easy. My only unknown was Lori, and that filled in with perps. I didn't even see IBM or Nee clues, but had the answers when I got there. HeartRX I had to laugh as I also looked at LARAMS for the longest time. Couldn't figure out what team this could possibly be. Duh!

    I filled in Drastic and Fantastic, so realized what the other long answers would have a similar configuration. I had one mistake as I misspelled Drachma/Dracama. AAA looked ok but, of course, AHA was better!

    Husker Gary, our Jr. High raises money for the music department by placing 50 plastic flamingos on people's lawns for a fee. You have to pay first, and they advertise in the District newsletter and in our local weekly newspaper. It is a bit of a shock to come out of your front door and find all these flamingos on your front lawn. They do it for birthdays, anniversaries, job promotions, or whatever people want to commemorate. It is rather fun.

    Hands up also for touring the Neuschwanstein Castle. It was a scenic wonder once we got to the site.

    Fermatprime, I did read your entry yesterday and hope that you'll be able to see the Ortho. Dr. with good results this time.

    Have a great Monday everyone.

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  31. Neville, Thank you for visiting today. It is always nice to hear from the constuctors and get a little more insight into the day's CW.

    Argyle, thanks for the great writeup. Informative as always.

    Dick, did you have a special event this weekend that brought all those 12 people to stay the weekend? I am tired just thinking about it!

    Husker Gary, Do you hire out?

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  32. Hello ALL !!

    Yes, sometimes I like to put it up to "11" - thanks for the link - Nigel Tufnel rocks !

    I was worried that this puzzle might be a mis-print, as I had no fill in the grid before STALKS, but after switching to D clues, I was done in 6 and change - good to be challenged on Monday- sometimes the quick runs are disappointing.

    Splynter

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  33. fermatprime,

    I saw your post yesterday, why the wheelchair, is it temporary?, hope you're ok.

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  34. Good evening all,
    I had no problems with this xwd today except for sticks for stalks. The perps filled in pretax, gre, glam,ytd and iliac.Did not see the ASTIC theme, but didn't look for it either.
    Loved "A,B,C,D,E or K" clue.

    Yes Neville, we have seen yes/no. It reminded me of the many NOTES I have intercepted over the years that go something like:
    Do you like me?
    check ___ yes
    ___ no

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  35. Easy puzzle (12 minutes). Sorry, but no time right now for more. Best to all.

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  36. Addendum: My weather forecast was off. The high on the golf course was 83 today with no wind. It was perfect except I had on a long sleeved, black T-shirt and was cookin'.

    Chickie, not only do I not hire out, my wife says we are not going to do this anymore. That is a long way up and my birth certificate argues against death defying stunts. Further more, a colleagues husband fell working on the peak of his house on Sunday and is in bad shape.

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  37. Neville.

    Welcome to our world, appreciate the drive by. I ofund 15 references to YESNO in various puzzles.

    Dennis, the reason you are a speed solver is the steel trap you have for a brain, as we in fact had YESNO last year in a DONNA LEVIN puzzle. It also has been in the NYT imes three times this year, and an almost identical clue was used when it was in the Washington Post.

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  38. But what were the scores? I went through all 5 tests, and was able to get no score. Wasn't I supposed to?
    Grrr.

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  39. C.C. I specifically remember that you said when you assigned some blogspots to habitual posters that you would at least post once a day on your own blog. What happened? You had a constructor stop in on this awesome blog. Is everything alright in your world? Just an anon that isn't mean, but misses you, and is a little bit worried.

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  40. Hi, everybody,

    Great writeup, Argyle.

    Sallie, there was a column on the left that said SCORE at the top. Just click on after each test and you get a score. I had 80%, 65%! 90%. 90%, 100% = 85%. Shameful. I even did the #2 test again and still got 65%.

    Fermatprime,
    I always read your posts. I seldom remember all the posts by the time I've read the whole conversation, so I often don't acknowledge them as I would like. I haven't learned how to use two windows yet.

    I thought this was pretty easy. What I didn't know I was able to get with the perps. As Kazie said, "Hoorah, no sports clues"; not even many rock and roll clues!

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  41. FYI, I believe the standard method of high jump prior to the flop was the western roll. The scissors kick was an earlier method.

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  42. Taylor910d,
    I moved your comment to Tuesday's Comments section.

    ReplyDelete

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