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Dec 30, 2008

Tuesday December 30, 2008 Stanley B. Whitten

Theme: Friends of Sloppy Joes

17A: Cheap, low quality wine: SNEAKY PETE

60A: Pal of Roy Rogers: GABBY HAYES

11D: 2002 Giants manager: DUSTY BAKER

28D: Clint Eastwood role: DIRTY HARRY

Well, I got DUSTY BAKER immediately, then obtained its symmetrical partner DIRTY HARRY very quickly too. I did have this "lucky" feeling and thought the other theme answers might be soil-y people, like golfer SANDY LYLE (Masters, and British Open winner) or someone MUDDY or SLUSHY.

Have never heard of SNEAKY PETE. Is it a slang? GABBY HAYES is not a name I could fetch out of my memory shelf readily. In fact, I don't remember where and when I stored it. I also encountered various problems at different spots: TAMMUZ & BUTE, SETI & EZIO, tough intersections for me.

I really like the clues for ACRE (49A: Part of a plot?) and IRENE (33D: Castle that danced), very clever.

Stan, I know you are reading this blog, please don't tell me the clue for BUTE (42A: Island in the Firth of Clyde) is your original. You have CLYDE as an answer for 50D: Glasgow waterway.

Across:

14A: New Italian bread: EURO. "Old Italian bread" is LIRA or LIRE.

15A: Refashion: ALTER. I like this "Re*" clue.

19A: Egyptian fertility goddess: ISIS. Ennui. Give me Bill Clinton's "IS IS" definition clue.

20A: Chafing-dish heat: STERNO. I wonder what's the origin of STERNO.

21A: Large knives: MACHETES. Have you ever been to a sugarcane field?

23A: '58 Presley hit: DON'T. No idea. If you find the clip, please share with us on the Comments box. I could only find his "Don't Be Cruel".

26A: Sub finder's acronym: ASDIC (Anti Submarine Detection Investigation Committee). Completely unknown to me. I could only think of SONAR.

36A: Sitcom equine: MR. ED. I am more used to the "Talking horse" clue. Was it a good show?

37A: Kicker Yepremian: GARO. Another unknown. Was he already bald when he was playing? Why was he named GARO instead of GARY?

45A: String along: COZEN. I was unaware of the "deceive" meaning of "String along".

51A: Heart rhythm: DIASTOLE. OK, according to Clear Ayes, diastolic blood pressure should be less than 80, and systolic pressure should be less than 120. Funny how I've never paid attention to this stuff before.

55A: Crooner Julius: LA ROSA. This is an interesting clip.

63A: Old defense acronym: NORAD. Its motto is 3D: Deter, Detect and Defend.

64A: Riga resident: LETT. Why LETT? Shouldn't its resident be called Latvian?

65A: Blackstone: ONYX

67A: Basso Pinza: EZIO. I forgot. This guy is in "South Pacific". What a strange name.

Down:

1D: Porgy's woman: BESS. "Harry's woman" too.

4D: Billboards, in Britain: HOARDINGS. New British word to me.

5D: Synthetic fabric: RAYON

6D: Matterhorn, e.g.: ALP. Gimme to me only when it's clued as "Mont Blanc, e.g."

8D: Stiff bristle: SETA. Stiff, stiff clue. Why can't we just have a normal partical "SET A good example" clue?

24D: Hebrew month: TAMMUZ. If the answer is not the 4-letter ADAR, then I am lost. TAMMUZ is the tenth month in Jewish calendar.

26D: Some Egyptian clerics: ABBAS. Oh, is that how Mahmoud ABBAS got his name? Good to know. What a mess there!

31D: Sister of Venus: SERENA. The Williams sisters.

37D: Carbonated beverage: GINGER ALE

48D: Cromwell's earldom: ESSEX

51D: Dealer's wheels: DEMO. Can we also clue it as "Obama's party"?

54D: River of Spain: EBRO. This flow-er travels entirely within Spain before it flows into the Mediterranean Sea. I've found out that the answer for a "River of Spain" clue is either RIO or EBRO.

56D: Court crier's word: OYEZ. I could only think of "All rise".

57D: Planet-finding grp.: SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence). Mine was NASA.

58D: In the matter of: AS TO

C.C.

63 comments:

Martin said...

25 minutes 47 seconds. Unknowns were SNEAKY PETE, STERNO, APSES, ASDIC, GARO, BUTE, COZEN, DIASTOLE, LA ROSA, GABBY HAYES, EZIO, HOARDINGS, ARIE, DUSTY BAKER, ABBAS, PRATE, IRENE, CLYDE, EBRO, OYEZ and ASTO. "New Italian Bread" made me think not of money but of PAIN (pronounced "pan") which is the French word for bread and "Sister of Venus" made me think of the Goddess Venus and not the tennis player.

I was so surprised when TAMMUZ was the answer for "Hebrew Month"! Apparently the month is named after the Babylonian God of the same name! I did a google search and found evidence that worship of Tammuz is responsible for the celebrations of Easter and Christmas. (The Bible doesn't make any mention of what time of the year Jesus was supposedly born or killed nor how these described events were to be celebrated.)

Martin

C. C. said...

Martin,
Sorry I accidentally deleted your previous comment.

JD,
Rather captivating information on the Zamboni brothers. Thanks.

Wolfmom,
All sports, played perfectly, are exquisitely artful.

Argyle,
I was not aware of the Aperture Magazine. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

C.C.,
You're gonna love this. The only difference between a minor prophet and a major prophet is the length of the book they wrote. Hence, Isaiah would be considered a major prophet.

Mont Blanc pens, if they are real, are all expensive.

L-Dopa is an old drug and not much prescribed for Parkinson's anymore. The reason, too many side effects. I am a nurse and one of my patients was on the drug, I always knew when he had taken it, constant movement of the mouth.

Terri

Anonymous said...

DEMOCRAT IN A RED STATE said...

28:06 today..... Started fine but 17 Across hung me up I'd prefer a different clue for the same answer........ I would have gotten it quicker had the clue been name Huggy Bear gave to Starsky & Hutch

When they asked something he would claim that sneaky pete did it.

December 30, 2008 4:25 AM

Martin said...

Martin,
Sorry I accidentally deleted your previous comment.


Actually, I accidentally posted the same comment three times because I was having troubkle with links. Oh and I did forget that the Bible does describe the cruxifiction as taking place around the time of the Jewish celebration of Passover.

Martin

Bill said...

Well, I gotta tell ya, I've always considered myself to be reasonably well educated but if we have many more xwords like this I just might go back to being a lowly truck driver.
As you might guess, I thought this was terrible!
How is a person that was raised in the good old USA supposed to know all these foreign countries, islands, names and such?
I think the Elvis tune they want should be "Honey Don't".
HOARDINGS?? Yeah, if you say so!
ASDIC? Have never seen that.
NORAD? HOORAH, our local AFB had a NORAD unit so I knew that one.
COZEN? Oh, I know. That's my mothers sisters child!!
OK, enough, already.
CY'all Later

Bill said...

OK, I stand corrected. Elvis did record a song called "DON'T" in 1958.
It was his 11th No one hit in the US.
I don't recall ever having heard it.
Can't find a video, but I did find the lyrics.
CY'All

Bill said...

DON'T-- Elvis Presley

Recorded: 1957/09/06, first released on single

(Words & music: Jerry Leiber / Mike Stoller)

Don’t, don’t, that’s what you say
Each time that I hold you this way,
When I feel like this and I want to kiss you,
Baby, don’t say don’t.

Don’t, don’t, don’t leave my embrace
For here in my arms is your place
When the night grows cold and I want to hold you,
Baby, don’t say don’t.

If you think that this is just a game
I’m playing
If you think that I don’t mean
Ev’ry word I’m saying
Don’t, don’t
Don’t feel that way
I’m your love and yours I will stay

This you can believe
I will never leave you
Heaven knows I won’t
Baby, don’t say don’t

Barry G. said...

*ugh*

Sorry, I mean "Morning, Folks!"

*ugh*

Total hammer time for me today. For awhile there I was holding my own and was quite proud of myself for pulling GABBY HAYES, EZIO, LETT, EBRO and DIASTOLE from the deep dark recesses of my brain. But then the sheer number of intersecting unknowns just overwhelmed me.

SNEAKY PETE crossing HOARDINGS crossing DONT and ASDIC? I eventually guessed all the right letters, but they meant nothing to me and I didn't feel very confident about them.

DUSTY BAKER crossing GARO? Never heard of either one but guessed the shared "A" correctly since BAKER seemed more likely than BIKER, BEKER, BOKER or BUKER. But GARO? Really?

CLYDE crossing LAROSA? Never heard of LAROSA. I've heard of CLYDE, but knew it couldn't be that since, as C. C. pointed out, the clue for 42 had Clyde in it. GLYDE and GAROSA? FLYDE and FAROSA? SLYDE and SAROSA? Did I really care anymore? Not really, so I put the "C" in just for the heck of it.

And then, of course, there was TAMMUZ crossing both BUTE and COZEN. I vaguely remembered COZEN, but TAMMUZ and BUTE were not within 50 miles of the outer fringes of my vocabulary. Couldn't even see them from here. Maybe I need to get out more, but I just can't believe that anybody was expected to know both of those (or even one of them, for that matter). I couldn't even hazard a guess, so I just hung my head in shame and left it blank.

As for the rest of the puzzle, I was surprised to see BATH clued as a cleansing "ritual" (since that implies some sort of religious context) and I thought that NORAD was still a current defense acronym instead of an "old" one.

I suppose it's sour grapes, but I'm firmly with Bill on this one. Many more puzzles like this and I'd just as soon give them up.

*sigh*

kazie said...

G'day all!
Well, I guess I can be glad I did know EZIO and LETT (German for Latvian is Lettisch). HOARDINGS was in my "A Word A Day" email the other day, so I remembered it. But I had to google KEANE, BUTE, JULIUS (very interesting link, c.c.), SERENA, GABBY HAYES, DUSTY BAKER, NORAD, TAMMUZ and got a few others from crosses and guessing.

That there are so few comments this late tells me we were not alone in our hammering.

We do have a Mont Blanc pen somewhere, that hubby was "given" as a premium from his company. When we got the tax papers that year, we were horrified that he had to pay taxes on this "gift". It was worth about $120, and that was over 10 years ago. We've been afraid to use it for fear of losing it,(but I can't remember where we stored it for safety!).

I wonder if Sneaky Pete is like what we in Oz used to call Red Ned, or Rot Gut?

Linda said...

For Martin:
Are you Messianic Jewish, by any chance? (your comments about the Bible not spelling out how or if we celebrate the Lord`s birth and rising from the dead made me wonder. BTW, we aren`t told to celebrate OUR birthdays either...in fact, the Scripture says to "mourn at birth and rejoice at death'. Go figure!

Razzberry said...

Good Morning CC & Company.

Had same problems as everyone else but most of it flowed well.

As we couldn't find Don't for Elvis, how about a different Don't from Shania.

Anonymous said...

Garo (short for Garabed) is a common Armenian given name.

Razzberry said...

C.C. Here is some sterno information from Wiki - The name comes from that of the original manufacturer: S. Sternau & Co. of Brooklyn, New York, a maker of chafing-dishes, coffee percolators and other similar appliances. They had previously applied the name to their "Sterno-Inferno" alcohol burner. In 1918 they promoted their Sterno Stove as being a perfect gift for a soldier going overseas.

Invented around 1900, Sterno is made from ethanol, methanol, water and an amphoteric oxide gelling agent, plus a dye that gives it a characteristic pink color. Designed to be odorless, a 7 oz (198 g) can will burn for up to two hours. The methanol is added to denature the product, which essentially is intended to make it too toxic to be drinkable

Crockett1947 said...

Good morning, everyone! Had to go to the G spot for 42A and 24D. Lots of unknowns today: SNEAKY PETE, DONT, ASDIC, BUTE, COZEN, LAROSA, EZIO, HOARDINGS, TAMMUZ, ABBAS, EBRO, SETI, wanted NYLON for RAYON, got DUSTY BAKER from the perps. Had a hard time finding that definition for SNEAKY PETE online. Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence, Hoardings, ASDIC, Cozen? Wow, what obscure words. OK, enough rant.

C.C., once again your theme is excellent. When I do the puzzle online late at night, I can never seem to come up with a cogent theme. Mr Ed was a fun little show -- ridiculous, but fun. You have to admit that GARO is better than Garabed Sarkis, which is his real first and middle name.

Have a great Tuesday!

dougl said...

Hi Kazie,

Did your word-of-the-day email explain how "Hoardings" came to mean billboard? I can't imagine a reason.

Like everyone else, I found this one to be a bit too challenging!

dougl said...

Also, has anyone ever heard of Sneaky Pete being applied to cheap wine? A new one to me.

dougl said...

C.C., sorry I hadn't answered your Sunday question. I do it the old fashoined way, pen & paper, and don't time myself since I usually don't do it in one sitting. Am very hooked on it though, and on your blog. Thanks for providing this forum!

Clear Ayes said...

Good Morning All, Thank goodness for DIASTOLE and the cross with DIRTY HARRY. Otherwise I would have had a tough time getting the bottom half of the puzzle going.

I think it is important for Americans to be familiar with the geography of foreign countries and some phrases...well, maybe not HOARDINGS, LOL. There was a poll done a few years ago that showed 50% of American young people can't locate New York or Ohio on a map and 75% couldn't find Israel or Iran.

The Nat'l Geographic Society president said. "Geographic illiteracy impacts our economic well-being, our relationships with other nations and the environment, and isolates us from our world."

We're not kids, but crossword puzzles are a good place for us to learn some valuable tidbits about the world we live in.

Carol, I use Allrecipes all the time. It is a terrific source for just about any recipe I want.

Crockett, I checked out the Goetta recipe. Looks like it makes a lot. Does it freeze well for later use?

kazie said...

dougl,
No, it's put together by Anu Garg, who is originally from India, and it was in his AWAD weekly notes and feedback email last week, while on a trip to Mumbai. Unfortunately, I had deleted it. He was describing the scene post-terrorist attacks. He used the term "hoardings" with the explanation in parentheses after it (billboards). You can subscribe to it at:
AWAD. I find it interesting, because it gives etymology and usage with examples, and a different theme for the words each week.

Dave said...

Man, you are young. Never heard of Gabby Hayes, or Ezio Pinza, etc?

kazie said...

Dougl,
I realized it sounded confusing that the words treated each week are with etymology given, while hoardings wasn't. But it wasn't a featured word--just part of his intro to the weekly discussion.

Anonymous said...

I remember the song so well. Very nice ballad! It was on the flip side of "I Beg Of You" & was the last single released here in the states before he went into the army.. Sheila

Sheila

carol said...

Hi C.C.and everyone, wicked puzzle this morning! Too many obscure words and like most of you, I went searching on the G-spot. I actually DID get SNEAKY PETE, DIRTY HARRY AND GABBY HAYES. Just had never heard of DUSTY BAKER.

Clear ayes, I agree, our kids are so far behind in geography..I suppose that is why the license plate for New Mexico has "U.S.A." printed at the bottom. :)

Having worked in Int'l export, I really got a great education in geography and in some of the local customs in different countries. That was fascinating! I often wished I could steal away in one of the containers that was bound for a country I really wanted to visit.

Crockett1947 said...

@clear ayes Yes, it does freeze well. I usually make a smaller batch with this recipe, on the stove top:

Goetta

1 pound ground pork and 1 pound ground beef
8 cups water
2 1/2 cups pinhead oatmeal (steel cut)
1 large onion, sliced *
1 to 4 bay leaves, optional *
2 teaspoons salt
Pinch of pepper

In a large pot with a lid, boil the water, add salt, pepper and oatmeal. Cover and let cook for two hours, stirring often.

Add the meat, onion and bay leaves. Mix well. Cook for another hour, stirring often. Remove bay leaf.

Pour into bread pans (size doesn't matter).

Refrigerate overnight.

To serve: Slice the goetta and fry it until crispy or just until heated through. Goetta may be served with pancakes and eggs, on sandwiches or in place of meat at dinner.

* Two teaspoons of savory may be substituted for the onion and bay leaf.

I'll make up a lasagna pan full with this recipe, and it works nicely.

Enjoy

JD said...

Good morning C.C. and all,

Before I finish reading everyone's comments, I have to vent. I didn't like this c/w. I think it started with erect being anend, and then 9D was erected.The 52D clue was not good for me.Why not a golf clue?It started out Ok,cuz I really always need the perps to help me, so I don't go "G" ing everything.These are all new to me: cozen,ebro,seta,seti,abbas,sneaky pete,Garo,bute,hoardings, and the 2 acronyms,ASDIC & NORAD!I did know Bil, Serena,Dusty Baker, Gabby Hayes, Mr.Ed ( a stupid program!), Isis, Ezio, and others.I also think Latt sounds more sensible than Lett, but Kazie gave us a good explanation there. When I got to the bottom , I will quote Barry, "Did I really care any more?"For 65A I put asole, which would be very fitting if a few other letters were added, but no, it was as one.

C.C., I did think that A. Godfrey link was very interesting also. My parents listened to him regularly; turns out he wasn't such a nice guy.

Phew, I'm done.

wolfmom said...

Ow, my head hurts! Even when I got some of the words it didn't make sense. Filled in SERENA but didn't even connect it to Williams sisters. Got DIASTOLE thanks to the discussion the other day. Again, got the some of the stranger ones, but couldn't come up with GABBY HAYES until I peeked here...then a big DUH moment. All of a sudden things started to work...maybe the coffee finally kicked in. I have never heard of SNEAKY PETE connected with wine...PLONK(British). Did know HOARDINGS, CLYDE,EZIO,LAROSA, DUSTY BAKER...
ARGH!!! I spelled HOORAH as HURRAH, which messed me up for awhile.

Crockett: I looked up your Groetta recipe and it has strong similarities with Scrapple and Haggis w/o the sheep's stomach...looks very interesting. Do you know the origin? It seems to be a local dish.

Martin: there is also a strong date relationship to various Pagan celebrations. Easter is near the Vernal Equinox and Christmas is within days of the Winter Solstice. In Europe, the church had a very difficult time eradicating Paganism, so they absorbed most of the holidays into the church calendar. A few celebrations, May Day and Halloween(Samhain) still stand out on their own. That is partly why a lot of this doesn't show up in the Bible, and remember, the Old Testiment is basically all from the Torah. Christians added the New Testiment and the Adam and Eve story was added as late as the 4th century by a mysoginist(sp?) ex-monk.

Bill said...

ClearEyes
While I agree with you about geography (as in Continents, Countries and various other COMMONLY taught areas) is there any reason (other than x words) that I should know places like Lake Titicaca, things like Hebrew months, and really weird words like cozen?
Sorry, but if a little knowledge is a dangerous thing then all that trivia will surely boggle my mind!!!
LOL

Bill said...

And SETA is a very common word, somewhere, I'm sure.

PromiseMeThis said...

Hi All,

Tough puzzle. Like most everyone I had a rough time with this one.

However, after 28 minutes 23 seconds, I am pleased to see that I got only two wrong letters. I just could not pull out the correct spelling for OYEZ. I had LATT, rather than LETT and I was trying to spell OYEZ as OYEA (which is how it sounds but I knew was wrong) and finally stuck a Y on the end. I knew neither an A or a Y was right for Basso Pinza, but I was stumped.

I assumed Sneaky Pete was a brand. Although I figured that one out about midway, I was perplexed by HOARDINGS. Since 1-Across had to be bath, I just went with it. I managed to pull DUSTY BAKER out of the ether. I did the same thing with GABBY HAYES who was well before my day. I, too, thought NORAD was still in operation. Luckily, I knew Tammuz. However, I would not have got BUTE or COZEN without the other down clues.

Clear Eyes, I totally agree with you about the importance of geography study for Americans. I tend to do pretty well on those questions. I have always had an interest in it and have been fortunate to have travelled abroad quite a bit. In fact I have been to China, C.C.. Not Xi'an, though. Perhaps one day. It is scary to realize, though, that some Americans can't even find New York on a map. Yikes!

I enjoy cooking, too. I tend to use Epicurious more than AllRecipes. I roasted a Goose for Christmas.

Crockett1947, thanks for posting the Goetta recipe. I will try it. It has an interesting name. It makes me think of Goetia, which would probably be a real stickler if used in a crossword. It has a high percentage of vowels, too.

Kazie, thanks for the link to AWAD. Too bad about the events in Mumbai. That's another place I haven't been that I would love to see.

JD, I used to live very close to the Arthur Godfrey causeway on Miami Beach. I had no idea, at the time, who he was supposed to have been. I am not sure who was more before my day, him or Gabby Hayes.




Ciao

Carl said...

Don't

Barb B said...

Bah Humbug. Didn’t know LETT or SETI, so I couldn’t solve that corner. Also didn’t know TAMMUZ OR BUTE. Got EBRO from the crosses, as well as DUSTYBAKER, GARO, ASDIC, and HOARDINGS and SNEAKYPETE.

Whew! I feel dumb.


I know it isn’t new, but I like the clue for LORDS (ladies men) and EURO (new italian bread) It was nice to see Gabby Hayes. I barely remember him, but he was funny.

CC – thanks for the Author Godfrey clip. My mom was a big fan of Julius La Rosa; I don’t remember hearing about his trouble with AG. It’s interesting how often an event that seems catastrophic can turn out to be a blessing in disguise. For Godfrey, I guess the opposite was true. Maybe he gained a little perspective.

Wolfmom, what is your source for the misogynist monk of the 4th century? I’m interested in looking it up.

JD said...

Thanks Bill, I really needed this fact.LOL
Setae in entomology are often called hairs.

Kathleen, you cleared up my harrah! Now I have "on end" which makes more sense. I just figured anend was a new word too.DOH

I find myself going on line for recipes more often than into my books. I used to think those pictures were so important. Now I'm looking for something that I already have most of the ingredients in my stach.

xchefwalt said...

Hello CC, df’s and all! Not to be a pest, but I need to throw a few leftovers from yesterday out there.

@CC- I say “no better sport to watch live”, you say “no”. What do you think is the best sport to watch live (and how can you say ‘no’ if you’ve never seen one)?

@JD- you mistakenly attribute the above statement to me- I think hockey is the greatest sport ever.

@wolfmom- here in Florida we play roller hockey at a high level with pucks. I have not seen a ball used since I played street hockey in NY 35 years ago (BTW- sunny, 72 degrees and not a cloud in the sky, I LOVE winter in Florida).

Crockett1947 said...

@promismethis Here's a wiki on goetta that I think is accurate. I usually just fry it up plain in a non-stick pan. And I NEVER put syrup, sugar, jelly, catsup or anything else on it -- the flavor stands on it's own. I do like the freezing suggestion of pre-slicing, though.

C. C. said...

Bill,
"Go back to being a lowly truck driver"? DON'T! Your back! And truck drivers are not lowly!

Barry,
I am unfond (a word?) of "Old defense acronym" for NORAD either, though Calef might say "Old" simply refers to the fact that it's been in existence for some time.

Kazie,
What do "Red Ned" and "Rot Gut" mean? Slang for cheap wine also?

C. C. said...

Dougl & Kazie,
Here is Anu Garg's original message:

Hi from a hot and humid Mumbai! Quite a change from sub-freezing Seattle.

After I landed at the Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport here and boarded a waiting taxi, I peeked out the windows on both sides. The city of Mumbai looked the same to me as it had on my previous visit a year and a half ago."

The same hustle and bustle on the streets; the same construction scaffoldings pulling high-rise apartments towards the sky; the same hoardings (billboards) promoting the newest in reality shows, the latest in mobile phone plans, the greatest in suiting and shirting (menswear)."

C. C. said...

Razzberry,
Thanks for STERNO. Awesome Shania Twain "DON'T" link also.

Anon @ 9:18am,
Does GARO mean anything special in Armenian?

Xchefwalt,
First answer: US Open (Golf), final round. Second answer: Just wanted to annoy you, so what?

C. C. said...

Crockett,
I am glad you liked the last 2 theme titles I had.

Dave,
Sometimes ignorance has nothing to do with age.

Promise me this,
Have you been to Guangzhou?

wolfmom said...

xchefwalt: Ball Hockey was very big on the West Coast, Texas and up around Michigan. Puck Hockey was played more in the midwest at that time, and a lot of the guys played both. The women's teams were pretty much all ball hockey. I played with a men's team as their goalie and we won quite often. Even went to Nationals 3 years in a row. This was about 20 years ago( I can't believe it!)when I was in my late 30's, early 40's. There was a big push on back then to get Roller Ball Hockey and Roller Speed Skating into the Summer Olympics. US players were traveling all over the world to build teams. I think they needed something like 30 countries that participated in the sport or there had to 50% men and 50% women. Only a few countries like Italy and the UK and I think France had women's teams at the time.

BarbB: give me a couple of days to locate the book. It was from a religious history class at a local Jr. College. I will get you the name. He was profligate most of his life and in his declining years became very religious. I want to say he lived somewhere in N. Africa in his later years, sometime in the 4th century AD. I will find the book and get you the specifics. Religious studies are always interesting as so many of the world's religions intertwine in so many areas.

Democrat in a Red State:...love the Starsky and Hutch quote...used to watch that show(boy am I getting old!)

Dougl: HOARDINGS actually comes from the term for "a temporary board fence around a building under construction, often used for posting ads and announcements"...from the UNDERSTANDING BRITISH ENGLISH dictionary 1989 by Margaret E. Moore...hope that makes sense.

Anonymous said...

Wolfmom,
When you get the info re Adam and Eve for BarbB be sure to put it on the blog where I can see it.
Calef

kazie said...

c.c.,
Yes, red ned and rot gut are slang for cheap wine. The first is only used for the reds, of course, usually claret, bought in a gallon jug.

Thank you for finding the hoarding quote. Is it stored online somewhere, or did you still have the email yourself?

I seem to remember seeing Goetta in a Mennonite or Amish cookbook somewhere. I had heard of it anyway, but have never encountered anything like it in Germany. The closest things to that I have eaten over there is Frickadellen--like hamburgers, but a mix of ground beef, chopped onion and pork meat in patties, coated in flour and breadcrumbs and fried. But no oats included. They are served on a plate with veggies--not in a bun.

Crockett,
thanks for the goetta recipe--I want to try it.

xchefwalt said...

@wolfmom- I don’t know what the rules were then, but now as there is no checking in any division of roller hockey (Atom thru Pro), men and women often play together on the same team. The rules allow for girls to play down one age year (i.e. an 11 year old girl can play on a U10 team) to even the physical differences. Some of the best players I have coached have been female.

@CC- I would argue that playoff hockey is more exciting, especially overtime. No TV time outs, non-stop action and sudden death rules. You may have a point if it’s Tiger and Phil coming down the stretch, but if it’s Paul Azinger and DL III, no-one cares.

wolfmom said...

xchefwalt...That is great to hear that girls are participating more in hockey. The rules still sound basically the same. My friend(female) and I played on the older division Senior Men because we were not allowed in the younger Sr. or Jr. men's teams. We had an exiled family of hockey players from Chile who taught us all a lot and I spent my 40th birthday at the US OLympic training center in Colorado Springs training young goalies. I know the puck hockey rules were a bit different...of course, I suppose nowadays, that everyone is skating on inlines, so it is closer to ice hockey...it is so cool that you coach hockey. I hung up my skates years ago and bought myself an oak roll-top desk with the proceeds from the sale of my goalie equipment!

Calef and BarbB: Just called my daughter, who took the class years ago. It was called RELIGION, SCIENCE and MAGIC. She thinks she still has the books, so I should have it in a few days...

kazie: I have the book that had the HOARDING quote. I have several British and Scottish friends, so years ago thought it would be fun to better understand some of the terminology. Inquiring minds and all that.For instance...a Scottish term...Today's puzzle made CRABBIT...grouchy.
Putzing around the house today trying to get caught up on some things.

wolfmom said...

Oops, meant to say "made ME Crabbit...

Ken Colwell said...

SETI is the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence. It doesn't search for planets, does it? I thought they monitored radio signals from space.

Linda said...

so...are Wolfmom and Martin saying :Our holiday celebrations are basically pagan in origin? (After observing some revelers, it DOES make sense!)

wolfmom said...

BarbB and Calef: I haven't gotten the book yet, but I think I tracked down who I wanted...I was mostly correct. The person I spoke about is Augustine of Hippo, born in Algeria Nov. 13,354-died in Algeria Aug 8, 430. Where I misspoke is that apparently a Jewish scholar is attributed with the original version of Adam and Eve in the 2nd Century.
Augustine is credited with sort of "polishing" the story into what we know today and putting the whole ORIGINAL SIN thing together, much as it is accepted today. He is quoted as saying "Grant me chastity and continence, just not yet." He IS St. Augustine of the Catholic Church whose Saint's Day is Aug 28th(I believe). I was correct in his profligacy in early life and he converted to Christianity in 386 at the request of his mother, though he kept his concubines.
A lot of good info is at Wiki if you Google Augustine of Hippo.
It was really interesteing to chase this down, and I am still hoping to get my hands on the book in the next week.

Linda...yes, most of the celebration days for us are very closely tied in with old pagan days. It was important to celebrate Harvests, birth, renewal, etc and it was easier to use the same celebration days to move people away from Paganism and into the Christian Church.

Linda said...

Quoting "Wolfmom" :"it was easier to use the same celebration days to move people away from Paganism and into the Christian Church."
But it backfired! The pagan practices superseded the Christian, in most cases. That`s why greenery,decorated trees, revelry, eggs, bunnies and chicks are so prevalent on what should be the two most-holy holidays in all Christendom. Not that I have strong opinions about it or anything...

Clear Ayes said...

Well, I see I have missed some interesting topics today.

Hockey is a whiz-bang sport, but it moves so fast that it is difficult for adults to get the hang of it. I spent some of my earlier years in Canada, when the Canadiens were the team to beat. It was easy for me to "get" it and to watch the puck. My father, who was a hockey newbie had a really hard time learning to watch. Just too fast moving for him.

C.C., Golf Addicted Husband is with you on the final round of the U.S. Open, no matter who is playing.

Wolfmom, have you had haggis? I tried it in Scotland It was a national "treat" and I always am willing to try new things....I just won't repeat on haggis.

Promisemethis, Epicurious is a great recipe site too. I like any site that has easily accessible user reviews.

G.A.H. and I did some post Christmas shopping today. Costco and Target were jammed. We also went to a movie. We were both hugely impressed with Doubt. It stars Meryl Streep and Philip Seymour Hoffman How can you go wrong with those two? It's the story of a nun who suspects, without any real proof, that a priest has been making advances to a boy in her school. It's the kind of movie that leaves you with lots of questions and very few answers. Those are always the best kind. It's a pretty sure bet to get an Academy Award nomination. Doesitinink, are you around? Have you seen it yet?

Linda said...

Also...I have read that it was Constantine who "married" the pagan rituals with the Christian. He was reportedly the one who also named our weekdays after pagan gods; Thursday for Thor...Saturday for Saturn etc.

wolfmom said...

Linda: You are right on both counts. Constantine held the first Council of Nicea in 325 AD to formalize the books of the current(at that time) Bible. Augustine was contributing his thoughts about Original Sin around then. The Pagan parts of the holidays definitely seem to take prescidence. Samhain(Hallowe'en) was essentially the end of the year and the time when it was possible for souls to cross back and forth. That is why we dress up in costumes and carve jack o' lanterns(they used to use turnips). Nov. 1st is All Souls Day, and by then you were safe. Oddly, in the UK(historically) Men dressed as women, and women, men.I just love this stuff!

Clear Eyes: Yes, I had Haggis once, like you, I always like to try things...Haggis will remain a just once experience. The funniest sign I ever saw in Scotland said "Mac and Chips..."with a photo. If you can fry it, they'll do it and you get chips with just about anything(including Chinese food). Fortunately, my one of my Scottish friends is vegetarian, so we search out more interesting places to eat when we're not cooking "at home".
Today's blog has been hugely informative and fun...way better than the puzzle that started it all...you guys ROCK!

wolfmom said...

One more thing, then I promise I'll stop...my husband said he had heard the term Sneaky Pete applied to a bad wine as meaning after a few glasses, it sneaks up on you.

Anonymous said...

This was a rather hard one. I didn't realize the song and dance thing was an "art".Also I had never heard sneakpete for cheap wine. Ha. Other than that though a little hard it was a good puzzle.

Anonymous said...

Although I read the blog on a daily basis, I have not written for months. I ran into difficulty in trying to post so gave up. I'll see if this works tonight. I have really learned a lot of interesting facts and am amazed at CC's knowledge and/or ability to find obscure facts.

Wolfmom says the story of Adam & Eve was added to the Bible in the 4th century. I question the source of her information. As we all know, just because something appears in a book does not make it a fact. Do we know for a fact that none of the earlier manuscripts contain that information? Is Wolfmom aware of the fact that Adam is mentioned 30 times in the Bible (according to Strong's concordance}. Paul, in writing to the Romans in C.A.D. 57,gives a very detailed comparison of Adam and Jesus in Rom. chapter 5, explaining the reason for Jesus' sacrifice was caused by Adam's sin. I Timothy 2:13, 14 says, "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Did your ex-monk insert all these writings into the manuscripts, also?

Anonymous said...

I just posted my comments as 'anonymous'. My user name is 'Dot' but I couldn't get it to post with my username & password. I don't know what is wrong. I know you don't like strictly anonymous comments.

JD said...

Yoo hoo xchefwalt, I was agreeing with you that hockey indeed is the best sport to watch live. And, as you said, play off hockey is even more exciting.We go as often as possible. I disagree with whoever said that people go just to see the fights.

Didn't all of you have an orange or pea green fondue pot, and we all bought sterno in those little cans?

wolfmom said...

Dot(ANON 8:04 pm) Look at the most recent posts. I corrected myself to say that Augustine essentially added to the original Adam and Eve Genesis story and put a lot of his own convictions about Original Sin into the writings. You do realize that the Bible hasn't come to us fully formed. Check out Linda's post and several others. Constantine was trying, in the 4th century at the Council of Nicea to create some consistency with the books of the new testament. There were a lot of different versions floating around back then. The Adam and Eve story had been in existence since at least the 2nd century and was added to and changed until about the 5th century. Check out the Google location on Wikipedia when you enter "Augustine of Hippo"...a very thorough history of his life and writings, which were extensive.

I'm am always open to input and corrections as I obviously don't have a steel trap memory...always want to continue to learn new things. That's why this site is so terrific.

C.C. I think your Blogspot got away from you today...its been all so very interesting.

Linda said...

Wolfmom...I always said, "Doing crossword puzzles over a period of time is much like acquiring a liberal arts education"

C. C. Do you forgive us for hijacking your blog today?

Barb B said...

My two cents about the bible discussion- some sorting.

I think there’s some confusion between who wrote what in the Bible and church tradition, The bible is actually 66 different books, written over a period of 1600 years, give or take a few. The book of Geneses, which contains the story of Adam and Eve, was completed at the very latest in the 6th century B.C.

The British museum has over 4500 manuscripts of the bible, some written as early as the 2nd century A.D. None vary significantly from the Bible we use today – in spite of the numerous translations

The Jewish Historian Josephus, a contemporary of Jesus (he wrote that he was born in the first reign of Caius Caesar – aka Caligula) wrote “The Antiquities of the Jews.” He said he wanted to explain who the Jews were and what had happened to them His account of Adam and Eve is so close to the Genesis version that they are almost interchangeable.

Constantine called the First Council of Nicea to decide on the deity of Jesus and matters of the Triity. Many of us still recite the Nicene Creed.

The councils of Hyppo, Carthage, and of Rome, met to decide which books to include in the canon, not to write or rewrite the bible.

Augustine was a bishop of the church in North Africa beginning in 391 A.D. He was opposed to the doctrine of grace, perhaps because of his own sense of guilt, and he was very ambivalent about women. He believed in the deity of Jesus, and argued for the inclusion of what we now call the Apocrypha into the canon.

Martin said...

I googled "Adam etymology" and the first four links all agreed that "Adam" was used not just simply as a name but as a generic way to refer to men "like dude, guy etc". A couple of links claimed that the word/name "Adam" came from the Hebrew word "adamah" meaning "ground" which refers to the fact that the story says that Adam was formed from the earth itself. I previously found online references claiming that the Sumerian word "Adama" had the same meaning. Adama was created by Enki, one of the sons of Anu.

Martin

Manisha said...

Hey everyone!! I totally love this blog..I'm from Bombay and we get these crosswords in the Times of India but we're getting your October ones now so thank god for archives!! Just wanted to say thank you to all of you for making this so much fun :D

PromiseMeThis said...

C.C.,
No I have not been to Guangzhou. I have been very close to Guandong Province, though. While visitng Hong Kong I took a day trip to Shenzen. Well, actually, we did not go into Shenzen. The border crossing there is tightly controlled and our tour simply took us to the top of a promontory that overlooked the city. We were all amazed as our guide showed us a photo of the city from 15 years earlier. At that time it was a sleepy little fishing village. However, as we stood there we were gazing out over a city that looked more like Hong Kong and had a population of 8,615,500, at the end of 2007 (I was there in 2006). It is the second busiest port after Shanghai, which I have also visited. I have been to Beijing, as well.

I suspect you probably knew all about Shenzen already.

Thanks for asking.


Ciao