google.com, pub-2774194725043577, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0 L.A.Times Crossword Corner: Wednesday December 6, 2023 ~ Wendy L. Brandes & Taylor Johnson

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Dec 6, 2023

Wednesday December 6, 2023 ~ Wendy L. Brandes & Taylor Johnson

What's My Line?


What's My Line?
(Elizabeth Taylor (1954) [@16:13 of 25:44])

Happy Wednesday, Cornerites. Today, Wendy and Taylor provide us some "folks on a LINE." Let's take a look:

17. Sure-footed circus performer: TIGHT ROPE WALKER. A person who walks the high-wire, er LINE.

26. Gridiron position: DEFENSIVE END. A DEFENSIVE LINEman (in football)

41. Call center worker: TELEMARKETER. Someone on a TELEphone LINE interupting dinner.

54. Web-based group, or a collective descriptor of 17-, 26-, and 41-Across?: ONLINE COMMUNITY. Hey, that's us at The Corner!

Impressive execution with two grid-spanners and some fun fill. Let's let the fill "lay it on the line" to ensure we get a nice Wednesday Puzzle.

Across:
1. Thai cuisine herb: BASIL.
Thai Basil

6. Therefore: THUS. Ergo.

10. Surrounded by: AMID.

14. Beyoncé venue: ARENA.

15. Stockings: HOSE.

16. Mauna Loa flow: LAVA.

Floor is Lava


17. [See: Theme]

20. More intoxicating: HEADIER.

21. Hotel patron: GUEST.

22. Pipe bend: ELL.

23. List of spa services, e.g.: MENU.

25. Tall instrument with strings and pedals: HARP.

26. [Seed: Theme]

30. Fiscal execs: CFOS. Chief Financial Officer(s)

32. Sole: LONE. All by my self.

33. Source of remote power?: AAA. Small batteries for the clicker.

34. Irrelevant: MOOT.

35. Deke: FEINT.

37. Phisher's plan: SCAM.

38. "Law & Order" spinoff, familiarly: SVU. Special Victims Unit. I watched maybe 1/3 of a show before shutting it off 'cuz, "eww yuck."

39. Big pistachio exporter: IRAN. California was too long.

40. Carriage: MIEN. Synonyms.

41. [See: Theme]

45. "It's __ a Minute": NPR podcast hosted by Brittany Luse: BEEN. I listen to this show every week; Brittany took over as host in '22.
Brittany Luse

46. Iditarod racer: SLED. Iditarod is a dog race thorough Alaska (which I'm told is beautiful - but only for the lead dog).

47. Convenience store convenience: ATM.

50. Small crown: TIARA.

52. Ultimate tool?: FRISBEE.

I played it a lot in HS. Fun.

54. [See: Theme]

58. Money drawer: TILL.
Cha-Ching

59. Green sage of film: YODA. Star Wars.

60. Familia member: MADRE. Spanish.

61. Marketplace with handmade gifts: ETSY.

62. Unimprovable place: EDEN.

63. Piece of broccoli or asparagus: SPEAR.

Down:
1. Soak: BATHE.

2. Redheaded Disney princess: ARIEL.
Ariel

3. George of "Just Shoot Me!": SEGAL.

4. Presented with great resolution: IN HD.

5. "Discover the West Coast Perspective" pub.: LA TIMES. I was thinking pub == brew-house for far too long #SierraNavadaBeer ;-)

6. Sportscaster Gary who called Orioles games from 2007 to 2020: THORNE.

7. Compete in a potato sack race, say: HOP.

8. Put to work: USE.

9. Suture, say: SEW.

10. Seductive power: ALLURE.

11. Come to terms (with): MAKE PEACE.

12. Pulitzer-winning composer Charles: IVES. Here's the WikiP.

13. Tavern projectile: DART.

18. Snorkeling site: REEF.

19. Tequila source: AGAVE.

24. Disconnects: UNLINKS.

25. Soupçon: HINT.

26. Half a colon: DOT. Also half a semicolon.

27. Junior: SON.

28. Bread served with saag paneer: NAAN.
Recipe

29. Salmon ladder spot: DAM.

30. Beach recess: COVE.

31. Souvenirs caught at stadiums: FOUL BALLS. In 40 years of going to basaeball games, I've never caught an MLB FOUL.

34. Taos winter hrs.: MST. Taos, New Mexico is in Mountan Standard Time zone during DST (Daylight Standard Time).

35. SAG-AFTRA president Drescher: FRAN. She was oft in the news over the summer.
She played "The Nanny"

36. Maize unit: EAR.

37. Title for Mo Farah: SIR.

39. "Just to clarify ... ": I MEAN. "I mean, I mean, [...] I'm sittin here on the Group W bench 'Cause you want to know if I'm moral enough join the army [...] after bein' a litterbug." -Arlo Guthrie

40. Ouija users: MEDIUMS.

42. In a spooky way: EERILY.

43. Film composer Danny: ELFMAN.

44. Glossary entry: TERM.

47. Tolerate: ABIDE.

48. Aquarium fish: TETRA.

49. "Twilight" author Stephenie: MEYER.

50. Nature Conservancy giveaway: TOTE.

51. Still alive for the semis, say: IN IT.

53. Lose one's cool: SNAP.

55. Look at: EYE.

56. Cape __: COD.

57. O'Shaughnessy poem that begins, "We are the music makers, / And we are the dreamers of dreams": ODE.

Yep, a nice Wednesday puzzle with no intersecting names ;-). Post your puzzling thoughts below.

The Grid:
The Grid


WOs: I ink'd only one M in COMMUNITY for a second
ESP: MIEN, THORNE, ELFMAN, MEYAR
Fav: Ultimate FRISBEE

Cheers, -T

Notes from C.C.:

Happy 86th birthday to Lucina! Here's a 2011 picture of Lucina and our old California blog regulars JD, Chickie, Clear Ayes and Garlic Gal and Dodo. Our deepest condolences for the loss of your niece, Lucina.

L-R back row: Chickie, Clear Ayes, Garlic Gal
   Front: JD, Lucina, Dodo (June 23, 2011)

34 comments:

Subgenius said...

The hardest thing for me to get was the name “Elfman.” Other than that, I didn’t have too many problems with this puzzle. FIR, so I’m happy.

Jinx in Norfolk said...

FIR, but erased tightwire for TIGHTROPE WALKER, only for LONE, sprig for SPEAR,and had to wait for padre/MADRE.

Today is:
SAINT NICHOLAS DAY (known for selling all his possessions and giving his money to the poor)
NATIONAL DAY OF REMEMBRANCE AND ACTION ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN (the Dixie Chicks’ song Goodbye Earl is a fun tale of a brute who ignored a restraining order)
NATIONAL GAZPACHO DAY (somehow, this one leaves me cold)
MITTEN TREE DAY (but this warms my heart)
NATIONAL MINER'S DAY (somebody’s gotta dig up those bitcoins)
NATIONAL PAWNBROKERS DAY (ours gave away a gun every week. Facebook banned them for that)

I think of a pipe ELL as a fitting, not a bend.

Don't know Mo Farah, but if he climbed Everest I guess he would be SIR Mo on the mount. I've heard of something like that.

Surprised this morning to find out that the LA TIMES put up a pay wall to protect the puzzle. But it doesn't protect the "print" button, so all is well - for now. I can always print it out from the Virginian Pilot if the TIMES complete the block, at least on the days when the Pilot prints the right one.

I think "ultimate tool" for FRISBEE was too clever by half. Guess I'll have to wish for "masters tools" for Christmas if I want to get those Titleist Pro V1 golf balls.

Thanks to Wendy and Taylor for the fun Wednesday challenge, and to Bayou Tony for the fine review. (I worked with a guy named Bob Brandies at GTE whose wife's name was Wendy. Yet another coinkydink, I'm sure.)

desper-otto said...

Good morning!

Not too many proper names in this one -- that's a good thing. D-o knew ELFMAN, SEGAL, IVES, and YODA -- not THORNE, ARIEL or MEYER. Took a little over 8 minutes to put this one to bed; that's a very good Wednesday time for slow-writin' d-o. Went sideways in a couple spots, but Wite-Out cleared that up. Thanx, Wendy, Taylor, and Dash-T.

I MEAN: I had the opportunity to play Alice's Restaurant one time on AFN Guam. Only once. The base commander put the kibosh on it.

Happy birthday, Lucina. Very sorry to hear of the recent devastating events in your family.

Anonymous said...

Took 6:45 today for me to be a scab.

I guessed at Elfman, but I didn't know Thorne, Meyer, or the weird clue for ode.

Sounds awful, Lucina. I send my condolences to you and your family.

KS said...

FIR. I struggled with the NW for a while when I threw down baste at 1D and accidentally misspelled it as batse. And it was wrong as well. So it took some time before I could make heads or tails of that section. Headier finally came and all was well again.
The theme was clever and the amount of proper names was tolerable. Although I still don't like to see so many.

CanadianEh! said...

Lucina-deepest sympathy in the sudden loss of your niece. May you be aware of our prayers and caring thoughts, even if this won’t be a usual birthday. Every day is a gift.

Whiner said...

Never heard of the term Soupçon but I guess chefs would know? Struggled a bit in the bottom right corner until I changed allow>abide.

Mo Farah is a multiple gold medal Olympic distance runner.

Big Easy said...

Good morning. I stumbled out of the blocks in the NW not knowing the herb or anything about the movie "Just Shoot Me" but the 'bar' in 5d had me stumped. It was only after DEFENSIVE END and CFOS were filled that I reread the clue and noticed the '.' after 'pub.' I was thinking of a pub named LATIMER, not a pub-lication. A V8 moment for the LA TIMES fill.

Didn't notice the ONLINE COMMUNITY of the other three spanners.

THORNE- why would anybody outside of Baltimore know about that person-perps
BEEN, ODE, SIR-WAGS for those unknowns
Stephanie MEYER- didn't remember but have seen her before
"Soupcon"- no idea but HINT by perps came to the rescue

CanadianEh! said...

Wonderful Wednesday. Thanks for the fun, Wendy and Taylor, and AnonT.
I thought I FIRed, but arrived here to see that I changed the T to L in my footballs guess without correcting the vowels to give FOULBALLS and SVU.
But I did see the theme.

I also had trouble in the mid-south entering Cape Ann, and not knowing that poem was an ODE. Remembering COD opened it all up. I had to wait for COMMUNITY to give me the Y in MEYER.
(Plenty of names today, without our usual clues, but perps were fair, so only a minor sigh from me, TTP. )

Busy day- short post.
Back to read you all later.

inanehiker said...

This was my fastest solve all week - I had to come to the blog though to understand the theme- but I am thankful for this ONLINE COMMUNITY

A friend's son played ULTIMATE both in college and also on a pro team (he kept his day job :)

I sometimes listen to "It's Been a Minute" on my local NPR station on Sunday when I'm solving the Sunday crossword. Always interesting

SIR Mo Farah - is such an amazing long distance runner to watch. He won both the 5000M and 10000M races at the 2012 Olympics from Great Britain. And his story of survival after being brought to UK illegally as a domestic worker at age 9 from Somaliland to Olympian is a testament to overcoming adversity! The documentary made of his life was inspiring.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21353016/

Thanks Tony for doing the blog (and to Wendy & Taylor for the puzzle)
I thought of you and our other IT gurus when this Sporcle quiz came up- I didn't know many of the answers but I knew you would!
https://www.sporcle.com/games/Wigbold/missing-word-information-security-terms

Happy birthday Lucina and my condolences - all the emotions wrapped up in one week!
Continue in prayer for you and your family for solace during this time of grief.

Irish Miss said...

Good Morning:

The theme was well hidden due to the seemingly unrelated professions, ergo, the revealer was quite a surprise. The only unknown was Thorne, but Meyer was also slow in surfacing. I'm always curious about the reasoning behind cluing a three letter word (Ode) with a sixteen letter clue. I thought the difficulty level was a tad below a usual Wednesday level, probably because of the mostly straightforward cluing, Ode excepted.

Thanks, Wendy and Taylor, and thanks, Anon T, for pinch hitting so well and so often. Loved the Harp comic and the trip down memory lane with John Charles Daly, et al. Liz Taylor could no more disguise that distinctive voice any more than she could hide those trademark violet eyes.

Dear Lucina, may your treasured memories of Regina bring you some solace on your special, though sad, day. 💐

Have a great day.

CrossEyedDave said...

From yest,
Jinx, that link you posted sent me to "Dropbox," which demanded I download the app, which was covered by a "sign in with Google" pop up , partially obscured by a "agree to cookies " demand. I started to sign in with google, but decided against it, as I did not like all the questions it was asking me. I would have given up, but the subject was kittens on a mattress, so I took one last look, and saw a tiny little "continue" near the bottom, which took me to a postage stamp size image of the cat mattress.

Moral: never give up!

Also, Jinx, you were right about oxygen not being that flammable in the caterpillar parade float!
I guess I have had it in my head that oxygen was dangerous ever since The Apollo One Tragedy.
scroll down to "choice of pure oxygen atmosphere " if interested.

Re puzzle:
My only (personal) nit was that I incorrectly parsed "green" as a proper name to the sage of film, causing Yoda to be perped...

And I still cannot fathom how frisbee has any association with "ultimate tool?"

best wishes in your birthday Lucina.

P.S. "We," are an online community...

desper-otto said...

CED, some folks shorten Ultimate Frisbee to simply Ultimate. We frisbeetarians know that you need a frisbee to play. And we believe that when you die your soul flies up onto the roof and gets stuck there, like a frisbee.

Monkey said...

Very nice puzzle, not too many impossible names. The long fills were easy to figure out, yet I didn’t stop to notice the theme. My bad.
Unimprovable place was an interesting clue. The NW gave me some pause also, but it finally filled. In the N I had ergo before THUS.

My only head scratcher was FEINT clued as deke. Apparently I’m the only one who doesn’t understand the clue.

Thanks A-t for a nice recap.

Lucina: a day that should be a joyous one for you is overshadowed by your loss. It’s heartening to see this ONLINE COMMUNITY’s caring sympathy.

Today would have been the birthday of my SIL who passed away in February.

Husker Gary said...

Musings
-I needed the reveal for this fun gimmick.
-The themers went from a three-word phrase down to two words to one word.
-The best TIGHTROPE WALKER?
-Cogito ERGO sum
-PHISHERS usually show up ONLINE
-An ATM was an instrument of death in Breaking Bad
-We bloggers on, uh, BLOGGER know how to UNLINK a posted picture
-I love this joke: A dwarf fortune teller escapes from jail. The headline: Small MEDIUM at Large
-Debate always rages before, during and after a committee decides who’s IN IT for the NCAA FB National Championship semifinals.
-I love the California Girls picture and share C.C.’s sentiment.

RosE said...

Good Morning! Nice start to the day. Thanks, Wendy and Taylor.

I zipped through the puzzle until I reached the SE. I got off the track when I thought convenience store might be gas….but that wasn’t working…hmmm. I put in stalk, but that knocked out TETRA. COD and ELFMAN appeared, so that gave me COMMUNITY. BASIL and “sage” ??? Herb on film??? Oh, YODA. That kind of “sage.” Which led me to change stalk to SPEAR. TETRA is back in, and the SE came together.

The other WO was spelling, a vowel, of course. faint -> FEINT.
Perps for IVES, MEYER and FRISBEE. I’m not familiar with the sport.

Clever theme but I didn’t see it until I read the recap. Well hidden.

CSO to waseeley for Baltimore Orioles / Gary THORNE.

Thanks, -T for a fun review. I got so immersed into the What’s My Line clip I forgot to read on. Will finish it later. Fond memories.

FLN: Heartfelt sympathy to Lucina and your family. How sudden and sad for all of you. Please keep in touch when you are ready.

desper-otto said...

Monkey, it's a hockey term:
deke /dēk/
transitive verb

To deceive (an opponent) in ice hockey by a fake.
"deked the goalie with a move from left to right."

noun

A fake, intended to deceive a member of an opposing team in ice hockey. A feint, fake, or other move made by the player with the puck to deceive a goaltender or other defender.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition •

Picard said...

Lucina Lucina you have my deepest sympathy for such a terrible loss.

Yellowrocks Hand up, welcome back.

This young man did one of the most amazing performances I have seen on a unicycle. It involved a TIGHT ROPE.

Cross of unknowns BEEN and FRAN WAG to FIR. Fun theme.

Anonymous T said...

Lucina - thinking of you and yours on your saddened birthday.

Hi All!

Sorry for the scant expo (like explaining who some of the NAMES were) but I was swamped over the weekend catching up from being OOO for 3 days sick :-(

Errata: in my ESPs, I mistyped MEYaR (It's not MADRa ;-))

SpeedySolver (@8:03a): scab - nice one.
LOL frisbeetarians, D-O. I must be The Freer of Souls as they'd send my scrawny butt on the roof to retrieve the disk.
HG - I spent a little time trying to find a good "Small MEDIUM at Large" comic but #deadlines

Innanehiker - the Change Meeting was boring so I Sporcled. I'll link my score but first, folks, if you plan to play, DO NOT CLICK the link below #Spoiler.
-T's "technical" Sporcle


Whiner - When I told DW we had "SOUP CON" [Soupçon] in the puzzle, she looked at me puzzled.
You mean, "Su(p) SOaw(n)?" [she knows French so said it properly]
"Oh, is that how that's spelt? :-)"

Anyone else? You know only reading something and never hearing it in context to associate the two words (written v. aural)?

Back to the salt mines.

Cheers, -T

Charlie Echo said...

Seemed pretty easy today. FIR, despite some completely unknown names,(to me!) but the perps were fair. I thought the theme was clever. Lucina, condolences on the untimely loss of your niece. I know just how it feels to outlive younger dear family members.

JoyB said...

QUESTION: My old iPad will no longer download the crossword. It will still load on my newer iPhone, but the screen is so small. Does anyone know if I’ve possibly done something in error to block the LA Times Crossword, or if I need a newer Tablet or iPad?

inanehiker said...

-T
I knew you would ace it - I got like 25% even with the answers being alphabetical!

Monkey said...

D-o @ 10:13 Thank you for explaining DEKE.

sumdaze said...

Thanks Wendy and Taylor for the Wednesday fun! FAVs: MAKE PEACE, Half a colon, FOUL BALLS, and clue for IN HD.
I had a one-box FIW because I forgot how to spell FRISBiE.
For a minute, I thought perhaps the Nature Conservancy gave away a TreE.

Thanks, -T for the tour! I enjoyed reading your notes, the Floor is LAVA clip, and Sack race comic (Too funny!)

Happy birthday, Lucina! It's a sad day today but it is still your day and that is special.

Chairman Moe said...

Puzzling thoughts:

Feliz cumpleaños, Lucina! Celebrar con estilo! (hope I said that correctly ...!!)

To the co-constructors and -T, thanks for the fun puzzle and recap

My misteak was at the crossing of BATHE and HEADIER - I had BASTE and SEEDIER

CrossEyedDave said...

JoyB @ 11:42

I copied and pasted your first sentence into my browser, and the following came up.

"Why won't crossword load?
Use the latest browser version available (ideally chrome, firefox, safari, or edge) Ensure your browser has third-party cookies enabled (the crossword puzzles and games are from a third-party, so these cookies are required; if you have them disabled that may negatively interfere with your ability to play the game)."

Safari automatically updates when you update your iPad IOS, so check your settings for cookies. Or type in browser how to enable 3rd party cookies on (whatever you are using)

If still no luck, pls advise exactly what happens when you try to down load puzzle

waseeley said...

Thank you Wendy and Taylor for showing us the shortest distance between 1A and 57D! As a friend of ours often says -- "I liked this puzzle", and that's no LINE.

And thank you -T for keeping us on the straight and narrow in your review -- and that's no LINE!

And thanks to this wonderful ONLINE COMMUNITY for all the fun and games -- I'm not feeding you a LINE!

I'm afraid time is limited today (I have greens to steam and vegetables to stir fry) so I shall spare you all the DAD jokes and BAD jokes, except for one favorite ...

12D IVES. Charles IVES was a professional banker who made music in his spare time, and thus could compose whatever he liked. In his tone poem the The 4th of July his red blooded American patriotism finally breaks through all that modernist bluster at the end. But in his Variations on America I think you'll find something a little more accessible -- and that's no LINE.

Happy Wednesday everyone!

Cheers,
Bill

p.s. Lucy Dale -- you are in our prayers. God will get you through this.

Yellowrocks said...

Dear Lucy, my heart goes out to you and your family on the untimely loss of your young niece. May your faith sustain you.
Although this is surely not a happy birthday today for you, I am sending you my wishes for much happiness and good health in the coming year.

As for the puzzle, FIR, but didn't suss the theme.
I knew deke. Years ago I followed the NJ Devils faithfully, but now I seldom watch sports.
Fran Dresher. . .her voice is like nails on a chalkboard, although I did like her in The Nanny.
I think of basil as an herb which I frequently use in Italian dishes.
Ultimate tool didn't fool me. Ultimate is a sport where the main tool is a Frisbee.
My mother used "can't abide" for "can't tolerate."
The Corner is a great online community. Sorry I had you worried.

Ol' Man Keith said...

I am just guessing that "Ultimate" is the name of a game using a FRISBEE. Guessing after the fact, that is.
I eventually managed to fill FRISBEE, although sure I was wrong.
Just imagine my chagrin. (I'll wait; imagine!)
~ OMK
____________
DR:
Three on the far side.
The central diagonal gives us an anagram (14 of 15) that suggests a stirring-up of an atmosphere associated with the Ancient Greek telling of the Trojan war.

That is, to...

"EVOKE (the) ILIAD AURA"!

JoyB said...

To: CrossEyedDave... This is JoyB. I tried everything you suggested and it didn’t help. When I click on the address for the LA Times Crossword, it brings up the page that usually has a video advertisement to watch before the next page comes up, but no ad appears, so it won’t go to the next page that has a list of the daily puzzles to click on. I tried to email you from the link on your bio page, but was unable to do that. I’m on Gmail: joyb2you2@gmail.com I’m a widowed 80-year-old Great-grandma, living near Winston-Salem, NC. One of my greatest pleasures in life is doing the crosswords, then reading the Blog. Even at my age I’ve learned so much on the detailed explanations of the answers, or by clicking on the links for yet more information. I’m to have my first cataract surgery on December 12th. Maybe then I can see more clearly... Thank you so much for answering my plea for help.

PK said...

Lucina, The anniversary of your birth is a significant date for all of us who enjoy and care about you. Hopefully there can be some rewarding moments for you in this sad time.

Vidwan827 said...

Again … my deepest sympathies to dear Lucina ( Lucy Dale -) for your recent loss and general sorrows in recent memory …. Especially around this festive season snd your personal Felice Navidad.
May you and your nearest and dearest loved ones get Thd courage snd strength to get over this tragic occurrence….

Thank you Wendy snd Taylor for s charming puzzle that I had. Very good time solving, and Anon-T for s fine review and a very interesting and involved blog !!!?!!!

I learnt some new words today soupçon ( meaning a trace, suspicion , hint etc. )

, dudgeon ( meaning anger snd feeling if fury -)

Ultimate ??? Frisbee ? …. Just a wag bug I’ll try to remember ….

Half a colon :: having had numerous surgeries, out there ….., I know what thoughts to avoid ….

I knew of deke only from this blog …

Gary Husker would have fit just as nicely as Gary Thorne …. Just saying …,
Tho’ “our” Gary would never abandon his beloved Nebraska ……

Iran is more well known fof saffron rather than pistachios…. And (was) known for Shiraz wines ,,,….. from the days of Omar Khayyam ….

Havd s great rest of the week all you folks out there

Vidwan827 said...

Dear Lucina

I meant …. Felice Compleanos … to you … in addition to a Merry Christmas - yet to come .. ….. ;-)

Anon-T …. I asked my Dw about soupson …. And a synonym …. And she was floored…. This from a 5 year high school french lessons …. and as a valedictorian … but never practiced her skill for her 60+ Yrs….
A human memory is very selective in what it retains ….

I used to love saag ( generally, a spinach -) paneer ( Indian cheese ) …. But no more … I might as well forget the recipe … too much potassium snd phosphorus. :-(.

Thank you guys fof the demo on oxygen, hydrogen and combination balloons …. As GaryH our resident teacher, would have said
“ what I sees (.) …. I does not forget easily ….”

Even long distance runners. ( Mo Farah …. ) can get knighted ???
Who needs a horse, a squire and a lance when he has the strength and stamina in his two good feet. ?? !!!!!

Lucina said...

Hola!

Thank you all my Blog friends for the birthday wishes. It is a bittersweet day but since I am still here at the ripe old age of 86, I guess I still have work to do here on earth. My darling Regina must have finished what she needed to do though it leaves us saddened.

I, too, love that photo. Thank you, C.C., for posting it.

I finished today's puzzle but failed to come here and post.