Jan 8, 2009

Thursday January 8, 2009 Alan P. Olschwang

Theme: Battle Tactics

20A: Start of a quip: HE THAT FIGHTS AND

37A: Part 2 of quip: RUNS AWAY, MAY LIVE

51A: End of quip: TO RUN ANOTHER DAY

Not sure where this quip comes from. Wikiquote seems to imply that it's from Oliver Goldsmith's poem: For he who fights and runs away/May live to fight another day/But he who is in battle slain/Can never rise and fight again.

Last time when we had "He who courts then runs away, lives to court another day" quip, Martin mentioned that Olschwang might get his source from Tacitus who said "He that fights and runs away, may turn and fight another day; but he that is in battle slain, will never rise to fight again." Whatever. Sounds like Mao Ze-Dong's Guerrilla Warfare Strategy during Sino-Japanese War.

I had another smooth sailing this morning. I noticed that all the puzzles we've had this week have very similar grid structures, lots lots of 4-letter words. I wonder if that makes solving easier.

I suppose "Shea player" is still a valid clue for MET (40A). I just want to mention that Shea Stadium is being demolished now. MET will be "Citi Field player" when the season starts. I dislike the clue for SEVENS (41A: Another name for fantan), as ANOTHER is part of the theme answer. Besides, I've never heard of fantan, not familiar with the original Chinese words 番摊 either.


5A: Deadly African snake: MAMBA. No idea. It doesn't look threatening though. I could only think of cobra.

16A: Pieces of pelvises: ILIA. I don't like "Pieces". Always reminds me of broken bones.

18A: Bucket wheel: NORIA. New word to me. Where is the bucket?

30A: Hebrew month: ELUL. ADAR does not fit.

48A: Sew loosely: BASTE. I tend to associate BASTE with moistening turkey.

57A: Eye part: UVEA. Latin for "grape". I always want IRIS for "Eye part" clue.

58A: In a slow tempo: LENTO. This is indeed slow. In "Shine", Geoffrey Rush's character is obsessed with Rachmaninoff.

59A: Japanese ethnic group: AINU. Literally "man". I wonder how AINU food differs from the traditional Japanese diet.

60A: Letter opener? DEAR. I like this clue.

63A: Before, before: ERST

64A: Nimoy's half-Vulcan: SPOCK. He is the guy who says "Live Long and Prosper", right?


3D: Debatable: MOOT. Once again, here is a list of all the self-contradicting words in English. I rather like the term Kazie used last time: Janus words, so evocative.

4D: Insect colonies: ANT HILLS

8D: Jail on the high seas: BRIG. Wikipedia says BRIG is jail for the Navy and Marines. And the prison is called guardhouse or stockade by the Army and Air Force.

12D: Jungle vine: LIANA. Can never remember this vine. Hmm, it's A NAIL when you spell it backward.

26D: Twist sideways: SLUE. The same pronunciation as slew, right?

27D: "Charley's ___": AUNT. Easy guess. I knew nothing about "Charley's AUNT".

28D: Describe with vividness: LIMN

29D: Literary collections: ANAS. How is it different from anthologies?

32D: Fighting force: NAVY. I thought of ARMY first.

34D: Queen of Carthage: DIDO. She killed herself when deserted by her lover Aeneas. I used to confuse her with LEDA, the swan lady.

38D: Vail rival: ASPEN. Both are Colorado ski resorts.

48D: Small, hand drum: BONGO. Interesting, Wikipedia says BONGO is also a kind of African antelope.

54D: Christian of fashion: DIOR. Like J'adore?

Enjoy Bob Marley "The Heathen". He sings "... 'Cause he who fight and run away, live to fight another day...". I love Bob Marley, don't you?



Dennis said...

Good morning, C.C. and gang - wow, three easy ones in a row! Don't remember ever seeing that before. There's gotta be a sledgehammer right around the corner.

Only unknown for me was 'fantan/sevens', and the perps quickly got that. And how many times are we gonna see 'manta' this month?

Today is both Bubble Bath Day and Male Watcher's Day - somebody else can figure out what to make of that combination.

Today's words of wisdom: "You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can't, you do the next best thing. You back up, but you don't give up". -- General Chuck Yeager

Have a great day.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Re: MANTA. No idea. Our editor is now on a MANTA binge. Thank you so much for the "Words of Wisdom" every morning. Very uplifting. Maybe Argyle can come up with a picture for your "Today is the day..." combination.

I meant I could infer kanji yesterday. Dated a Korean guy and fell in love with kimchi. I liked the second group of theme candidates, though your MUCKS is in plural form.

Superb GROUND-theme answers. MARL is new to me. I thought you meant STONE. Thanks for "Back horse, twice". "Hey, Crockett, tell 'em about the guy who named his sister's twins for her." What does that mean?

Anonymous said...

18:36 today

32D: Fighting force: NAVY. I wanted ARMY.


SEVENS (41A: Another name for fantan, 30A: Hebrew month: ELUL, 58A: In a slow tempo: LENTO, 34D: Queen of Carthage: DIDO & 29D: Literary collections: ANAS.

On this day in 1973, seven men went on trial for breaking into the Democratic Party offices in the Watergate hotel which led to President Richard Nixon's resignation in August 1974.

Dick said...

Good morning CC and all. Another easy one today. Fills were completed as fast as I could write. However, I did not know the cross between LIMN and SEVENS and guessed the N. This allowed me to finish with no blank spaces.

Had a few inches of snow last night so I guess I will get the snow plow out for awhile. See you all later.

Anonymous said...

Jeanne said...yesterday that she hasn't read Lolita By Nabokov.

I saw the movie with Jeremy Irons as Humbert Humbert. Melanie Griffith was the mother and Dominique Swain as Lolita.

I must warn you Jeanne the content might be disturbing to some readers.

Fred Frasier

Argyle said...

Good Morning,CC and sundries

Maybe Argyle can come up with a picture...

I don't know....

Buckeye covered the joke for Crockett @3:20PM yesterday.

Today, my problem was mispelling LIMN and not knowing FANTAN.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Dr. Dad,
Does DUST DEVIL happen in the summer time only?

I did not do the test. The name Female is funny.

Jim in Norfolk,
Nice catch on the NARC cluing error yesterday.

Barry G,
Does your wife have problem pronouncing BAD, BED and BIDE also?

C.C. Burnikel said...

Yes, I do have problem with taxes and Texas.

I only learned about BOCCI last Sunday when it appeared on our puzzle.

Mark in BA,
Dennis got it, STEALTH. What's so funny about the name Richard Head?

ANNE Rice is a great clue. Thanks. I did not like the ending of "Network".

C.C. Burnikel said...

No, I've stopping updating the Repeat Offender List long time ago. I simply do not have enough time.

Thanks for IRENE. I figured it has to be a feminine form, since it's a goddess. Good catch on EAVES clue error.

Have you had horse apple before? How does it taste like?

Barb B,
Steve Jobs would have asked "WHY NOT ME"?

Anonymous said...

Clear Ayes said...

I used to work with a guy named Michael Hunt.

My grandfather used to tell that joke when he was alive but he said the mans name was C. Mike Hunt

Argyle said...

Today is both Bubble Bath Day and Male Watcher's Day

OK, that didn't take long at all.

Don't confuse horse apples with road apples.

Dennis said...

Argyle, that picture is beyond disturbing, lol.

I had the same thought regarding horse apples vs. road apples. Not a mistake you want to make.

So what do you do with the elves in the off-season?

Superfrey said...

C.C. Nice highlighting Alan Olschwang. You do a great job with the Crossword Corner !!!
Also.... a lot of people have trouble with taxes and Texas :):):)
I got the quote quickly today but got stumped on Bucket wheel/Noria and fantan/sevens. Nice puzzle though.... great day to all.

Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

Great interview with Mr. Olschwang, C. C.! Thanks so much for doing that.

This puzzle had a number of potentially thorny bits, but in the end it was another very easy puzzle for me. It helped that the quip was very obvious, and that cut a large swath through the puzzle.

The only unknowns for me today were NORIA (completely unknown) and SEVENS (I've vaguley heard of "fantan" but didn't remember what it was). Fortunately, however, I've been doing puzzles long enough that AMAH, ANA, LIANA, DIDO, AINU, ERNE, ILIA and UVEA are all gimmes to me. Oh -- and I've finally committed ELUL to memory as the second Hebrew month I know (next to Adar, of course).

All in all, a fine puzzle, albeit not particularly challenging. My only minor quibble was the fact that CARDS was clued as "Hallmark product" instead of "products."

Does your wife have problem pronouncing BAD, BED and BIDE also?

Well, I just called her on the phone to ask. She can certainly distinguish between BED and BIDE. Her BED and BAD sound suspiciously similar, but I know a lot of people here in the US (especially in the western states where I went to college) who have the same problem.

Here in Boston we pronounce MARY, MARRY and MERRY with distinct vowels, but out west people seemed to pronounce all three as MERRY. As a result, I got used to people calling me BERRY instead of BARRY. I kept trying to explain that my name was pronounced with the same vowel as SAD and BAD instead of BED, but it never helped. Of course, they kept trying to explain how DAWN is pronounced differently from DON, and I could never get it either, so I guess it's all what you're used to.

My wife actually does pretty well with her vowels, but consonants can be a bit of a problem sometimes. Especially the letter R. Neither she nor any of my numerous Chinese co-workers can pronounce ERROR correctly; it always comes out sounding vaguely like ARROW. Still, they do much better than I do when trying to navigate the 4 tones in Mandarin... ^_^

pattispa said...

Good morning C.C. and all. I couldn't believe that I finished yeserday's puzzle in 16 minutes and today's in 19 minutes. My average time is usually 30 minutes but I never give up until all the spaces are filled.

Today I had a bit of trouble with "fantan". I vaguely recall it as a card game but the first thing that came to mind was gum. Wasn't there a licorice flavored gum by that name? Do they still make it?

Argyle said...

Dennis, you don't want to see this one then.

As far as our off season, the elves are strickly "don't ask, don't tell."

Dennis said...

Pattispa, you're right - here's a great link to old chewing gum brands.

Dr. Dad said...

I did this one in 5 minutes and 14 seconds. Dennis probably did it in 4 minutes or less.

Today is Bubble Bath Day and Elvis' Birthday. It is also Midwife's Day, National Joy Germ Day (????), National English Toffee Day, Man Watcher's Day, and Show and Tell at Work Day. Some of the Sirens will probably want to watch us men in the bubble bath and then tell about it at work.

Have a great Thursday.

Dr. Dad said...

C.C. - Depends on where you are. I saw dust devils mainly in the summer when I lived in Nebraska. But if one lives where it is hot you can see one at anytime of the year. You just need the cold air mass to somehow get above the warm air on the ground and you're off and running. The extent of the cold air above the warm air and the temperature difference determines whether you get a dust devil or a tornado.

Boomer said...

Good Morning to all you expert solvers. Here's a clue for extra credit: (Answer is four letters).
"Mary's father has five daughters, Nana, Nene, Nini, Nono, and ????

Only 25 more shopping days until Groundhog Day.

Dennis said...

Boomer, that'd be Mary. But the last one should've been No Mo.

Jeanne said...

Good Morning all,
Like others, I didn't know fantan or limn but guessed. Don't want a hammer tomorrow but a gavel would be okay.

@Fred, "Lolita" is on my reading list but just never get around to it. My list is quite diverse so I don't think I will be shocked. This is the time of year I curl up with books and afghans even in the afternoons. Just love retirement.

@Dennis, my Christmas decorations are all boxed and in a holding area until I get them into the attic. When I do that I will check on the train engine model and maybe you can help me on the value. Also looking forward to Eagles game--hope Donovan is ON. Loved the words of wisdom-seems the older I get I do have to back up and do the next best thing.

kazie said...

G'day all,
I really enjoyed the interview, c.c., but his family description saying "each of which" hit a grammatical nerve, when he should have said "whom". Then I realized in your discussion of today's quote, that he did the same thing there with "that" instead of the original "who", though that didn't cause as much of a shock for me.

The puzzle was easy, except I had ANAL and couldn't reconcile that with the complete unknown fantan or SEVENS--I had SEVENL, I did know LIMN.

I didn't know NORIA either but it came from perps. In your linked picture, the buckets must be all the way around the wheels, like on a paddle steamer.

kazie said...

I forgot, I can't take credit for the Janus words terminology. I think it came for AWAD emails. But thanks for reminding me of it!

Martin said...

10 minutes 43 seconds. Unknowns were ILIA, NORIA, ELUL, UVEA, LENTO, LIANA, LIMN and STUART although a few (ILIA, ELUL and UVEA) I do recognize.


lois said...

Good morning CC et al, Yep, another slam dunk. Good stuff. Dread tomorrow.

Am I losing it or did anyone see a man on that water wheel? Saw him but no buckets. Maybe his job is to be the bucket...he's about to kick it. A job not on my bucket list.

Kazie: LOL You're so right. It is hard to reconcile 'anal' with any unknown...'fantan' or not.

Argyle: The song 'I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles' comes to mind immediately followed by me going whhhhhhhheeewww!... Holy Bubble Blowing Hotwick! (you put the comma or hyphen in) #1 is disturbing, like Dennis said...but #2 will do nicely. Thanks for the inspiration. Yeah, baby, whhhheeeerrreeee's your daddy?

Enjoy your day. Go Sooners!

Anonymous said...

I am of the opinion that the water wheel in the picture is properly called a paddle wheel, and that the wheel is turned by the current of the water below it. To me a bucket wheel has buckets instead of paddles and the wheel is turned by the weight of water that enters the buckets from above. I didn't look this up and I may be wrong.

Boomer said...

Lois, After the OKC Thunder performance against the Timberwolves last night, I'd root for the Sooners also.

Dennis, of course you are correct, so here's phase two: If you're in a bowling tournament and you overtake the second place bowler, what place are you in? In the same bowling tournament, If you overtake the last place bowler, what place are you in?

Dennis said...

Boomer - second, last?

Dr. Dad said...

Here is a picture of a Noria in Spain that has buckets.

Here is another picture of something that is also called a Bucket Wheel. These excavators are some of the largest vehicles on the planet and the BAgger 288 shown (when completed in 1978) was the largest and heaviest tracked vehicle at 13,500 tons.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand why "manta" is such a mystery. Ask any Florida fisherman or SCUBA diver. The Manta Ray is the largest of the marine rays. It has wings that propel him through the water like a huge, powerful hawk chasing a buzzard. If you are ever fishing off the Florida coast and hook one of these things, hang on - he might take you to Nassau.


kazie said...

If you look at the spokes on the two smaller wheels, there are definite contraptions that would direct water to the little platforms on the outer edges, and those seems to have at least some depth to hold a little water and drive the wheel.

Anonymous said...


kazie said...

Just saw Dr. Dad's wheel--that one is better. I was looking for a picture of one I saw in a mine in Saxony, but got sidetracked and there were no pix anyway.

Tha bagger is downright scary. The Germans refer to any earth moving equipment as Bagger (singular and plural).

Bill said...

I'm thinking that PADDLE wheels normally move with water underneath them; while BUCKET wheels are turned by water falling from above. Just a thought.
Easy time all week on x words. But I haven't been getting to them till really late, except for today. Didn't know FANTAN. Thought LIMN was right but wasn't sure till I got here.
Gotta go! Y'All later

Bill said...

Oh, crap. Sorry, Calef, I must have missed your post and repeated your thoughts. I'll look more closely next time!!

Linda said...

Boomer: "Nunu?" (following the vowel pattern) Do I win anything?

Argyle said...

What a hoot:
53D: Water wheel: NORIA. Unknown to me. It's "a device consisting of a series of buckets on a wheel, used in Spain and the Orient for raising water". Tuesday August 26, 2008 Alan P. Olschwang

The noria, like the Persian wheel, uses the buckets to lift the water out of one place and deposit it in another. The buckets don't drive the wheel.

Boomer - second, a bowling alley?

Linda said...

Boomer: Always told my students that Groundhog Day was "Sausage Day."

Linda said...

Boomer: I`m chagrined...of COURSE it`s "Mary"...what I win is Dunce of the Day!"

Razz said...

@Boomer - If you remember the fun with names from yesterday...there is a chance that "Mary" could be a male child! Now doesn't that change the thought process for answering your question. LOL ;~p

Dennis said...

Linda, regarding 'Nunu' - it's a trick question. The answer's in the description.

I've tried that 'Sausage Day' trick on women as well....never seemed to work.

Crockett1947 said...

Good morning, everyone. Yes, another easy one today. That hammer must be around here somewhere.

Have a great Thursday. Got a Neil Diamond concert this evening -- should be a great one, from the reviews I've read.

@buckeye Thanks for covering me on the joke yesterday. I hadn't a clue.

Boomer said...

Never heard of a male child named Mary, but I've heard of a boy named Sue. On the bowling question, if you overtake second place, you are of course in second. But on the second part, if you overtake last place - If you said penultimate, I applaud your vocabulary but you are incorrect. If you said second to last, you may be smarter than a fifth grader, but sorry it still doesn't work. No matter how bad the last place bowler is, he can not be overtaken.

kazie said...

@Razzberry and Boomer,
There was a male German poet (1875-1926) whose name was Rainer Maria Rilke who wrote weird poems like one about a panther pacing in its cage.

Linda said...

Once worked with a male named "Vivian" (Anglo-Saxon origin) and a man in the OT was named "Shelah" as well as a female named "Noah".

Anonymous said...

mark - Buenos Aires

c.c. Richard Head

Dick is the shortened version of Richard (Tricky Dicky)

so - Dick Head

In UK its a term of abuse e.g. "What dickhead ate my sandwich"

Elissa said...

As an old Navy JAG lawyer, I liked NAVY as the answer for "Fighting Force" and NAVY and BRIG in the same puzzle.

C.C. I started doing the crossword about six months ago and was really delighted when I found your blog. Besides helping fill in the blanks when even the G spot doesn't help me, I really enjoy your perspective on the clues and the answers. I'm inspired at your ability to do these puzzles so soon after becoming an English speaker and without a lot of the early cultural references. And I'm learning a lot. Reading your posts makes me focus on things that got filled in with the perps, whether I knew them or not. THANKS!

Clear Ayes said...

Good Morning All, I had to go to my "Master List" this morning to look up ELUL. Good thing, because otherwise I would have had SKEW for for 26D. Somewhere in the past few decades I had picked up the information that Fantan was called SEVENS. NORIA and ANAS were unknowns, but all came around with the help of the perps.

C.C. Re: Michael Hunt. Honest...not a joke, a real live thoughtless of his parents. He married a friend of mine and they had two children, both girls. The name Michael Jr. wasn't on their name list (luckily, they weren't fans of actress Michael Learned).

Dustdevils are common along the mid-California coast when the agricultural fields are dry after harvesting .

Dem In Red, Interesting note about the Watergate trial. We recently saw Frost/Nixon. Who would think that a movie about a set of interviews would be so interesting? Frank Langella is wonderful, but the whole movie treats Nixon more sympathetically than some might think he deserves.

Clear Ayes said...

Yesterday, I didn't get back to the blog to include this poem. Old Rock Day seemed to call out for this erotic and evocative poem. I hope that all of you have a similar memory, wherever the water's edge might have been.


Evansville, Indiana
Lights out, we ease onto the sand,
surprisingly firm, and park
at the water's edge.
Across the river
Kentucky lights shimmer
like an underwater city
as a barge passes slower
than our sweet undoing not far
from fishermen, silhouetted
by driftwood fire, who curse as they
dance back dodging waves
that slap like flesh
and swirl under our beached car
that floats free, or seemingly so,
a dark craft pulsing with cigarettes
and all-night rock 'n' roll.

-Roger Pfingston

Linda said...

CC I wanted 58a to be "largo" so badly!

Dennis said...

Clear Ayes, 'evocative' is the perfect word for that poem -- and I suspect we've all been there.

DoesItinInk said...

@Jeanne…and anonymous: Nabakov’s Lolita has perhaps one of the best opening paragraphs of any book ever written:
Lolita, light of my life, fire of my loins. My sin, my soul. Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three steps down the palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. Lo. Lee. Ta.
She was Lo, plain Lo, in the morning, standing four feet ten in one sock. She was Lola in slacks. She was Dolly at school. She was Dolores on the dotted line. But in my arms she was always Lolita.

@Barry G: I stand guilty of not differentiating between ‘Barry’ and ‘berry’. Will work on that! But I am curious what distinction you make between ‘Mary’ and ‘marry’? I pronounce them the same but differently from ‘merry’.

@Clear Ayes...The title of your poem definitely caught my eye. I was raised in Evansville, Indiana. I will ask my mother if she knows a Pfingston family.

Not much to say about today’s puzzle except that it was far too easy.

Jeannie said...

It was a fairly easy puzzle for me today with the exception of "limn" and Fantans being sevens. Wow, I am going to mark this day in the calendar. Two of my favorite watching and bubble baths. Maybe one will lead to the other.....

Argyle said...

Everybody, I spent quite a bit of time looking into this NORIA but I think I've figured it out.

First, it isn't a true bucket wheel; it uses tubes and water power. In that sense, it uses a undershot paddle wheel for power. The tubes are on an angle so that they fill up when they enter the water and dump out into a trough at the top.

This first site explains it better and has figures. 4.9.4 Water Wheels and Norias is near the bottom of the page.

The second site is a YouTube video of a
in action but the tubes are not that noticeable.

And lastly, CC's original image. I can make out the tubes, now that I know what to look for.

kazie said...

As an aussie, my pronunciations all differ from normal American. But several things are interesting to me. I pronounce Mary to rhyme with fairy--long vowel, and merry like ferry--short "e" like in "egg". Now Barry and marry rhyme--short "a" like "cat".

What really amuses me is how, here in Wisconsin, the word mirror simply loses the last syllable altogether: People say "mere" all in one syllable as if they can't put the "o" in to separate the three "r"s. Aussies don't pronounce final "r" as forcefully, so it's easier to get the "or" in after the "mirr-", it sounds more like "mirra".

Barb B said...

First let me congratulate you, CC for another great interview. You are so talented.

I got a little stuck in the SW corner, but once I figured out DEAR LOVER and ERST, I was home free. That turns out to be descriptive for me – My dear lover was erst. But life is still very, very good. I love the way they say it in Botswana (as I read in the No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency – He’s late. Almost 20 years late, so I’ve adapted.

Elvis’s birthday? Kinda goes with the clue for 16A. Elvis knew how to move it.

CC …….Steve Jobs would have asked "WHY NOT ME"?

Barry – Mia Culpa. I’m sorry; I just can’t seem to get it right. Imagine my trouble with my friend’s family names, Her second husband’s last name was Barry, and her son by her first husband is named Barry something else. I’m always wrong.

‘Outliers”, but Malcolm Gladwell is on my To Read list. I loved his other books.

Bill said...

Just a follow up on Richard Head! In this area (a few years ago) we had a conservation officer (Read: Game Warden) by that name.
You can imagine what various names he was called when he issued a ticket to an errant hunter or fisherman. And, you KNOW what was number one!!!

Clear Ayes said...

Mea culpa too....Mary, fairy, tarry, berry, Barry, even bury, all come out pretty much the same way. "Mirror" is pronounced "mear-er"

I spent most of my formative years in California, except for a few years in Ontario, Canada. I've never been called to task by another Californian for pronunciation, so I suspect we are just a big "accent melting pot". Our governor remains accent assimilation resistant.

Happy Birthday to Elvis. As long as today's poem has put me in a reminiscing mood, here is my all time favorite Elvis song, I Was The One. (Love that Jordanaires backup ;o)) Was I listening to it on those "parking nights" at Malibu or Corona Del Mar? I sure hope so.

JD said...

C.C., a horse apple is a ball of horse feces( also known as horse shit), so the answer is no, and I don't think I'll try one anytime soon. Nor will I try a morel anytime soon.

Dennis said...

JD, I believe you're confusing Horse Apples with road apples. Horse Apples are edible; road apples are indeed horse feces.

Jeannie said...

JD, you don't know what you are missing by never trying a morel DF or otherwise they are tasty!!

Clear Ayes said...

Wikipedia to the rescue.

"Maclura pomifera, known as Osage-orange, Horse-Apple or Bodark:

The fruits have a pleasant and mild odor, but are inedible for the most part. Although not strongly poisonous, eating them may cause vomiting. The fruits are sometimes torn apart by squirrels to get at the seeds, but few other native animals make use of it as a food source.

Modern horses and other livestock will sometimes eat the fruit."

embien said...

9:05 today. I dawdled my way through this but knew many would find it easy.

Black MAMBA was the name given to Uma Thurman's character in Kill Bill (she was "The Bride" in the first movie; Beatrix Kiddo in the second). All of Bill's female assassins were given the code names of poisonous snakes Deadly Viper Assassination Squad. Black Mamba was the deadliest snake, and Uma Thurman was the deadliest assassin (as the movie ended up showing us). I hate excessive violence and gore, but for whatever reason I can't get those two movies out of my head, despite the (largely gratuitous) violence.

I loved the interview, c.c.

Dennis said...

That's interesting -- I guess there's different types of Horse Apples.
"Horse Apples have a good flavour when fully ripe. Before that, they are quite tart. When fully ripe, they lose some of their tartness, but never get really sweet.

This makes them popular for cooking, baking and drying.

Horse Apples are particularly popular in the southern United States."

Buckeye said...

Guday, all fair and friendly.

No snags today and thank you Mr. Olschwang and you, too c.c. for the interview.

Argyle @ 7:17am. If that is a picture of you, you are a disturbed man. If it is of somebody ELSE, you are a deeply disturbed man.

Re: Charley's Aunt: I remember seeing it on opening night in London. I remember it because it was Leap Year and the date was February 29th.

Re: speech accents. Is sloppiness in speech caused by ignorance or apathy? Personally, I don't know and I don't care.

I must be off

JD said...

Dennis and Clearayes, According to my dictionary it is described as horse feces, and also pretentious trash. They also quote a line from a Steven King novel where he uses the 2nd def. I saw the pictures this morning, so I can see it really is some kind of "fruit", but this must also be a definition.

Buckeye said...

Clear Ayes; My Sister. Keep the poems coming. I once had an unforgetable night in Evanston, Indiana.


Auntie Naomi said...

Hello C.C. et al.

I got hung up by LIMN and SEVEN, as well.

C.C. said:
Have you had horse apple before? How does it taste like?

I had to laugh at this because where I come from 'Horse Apples' are the ones Argylle refers to as 'Road Apples'. Also being as Montana is out west, I guess that's why I make no differentiation between the pronunciation of MERRY, MARY and MARRY. Sorry Berry ;)

As for the elves: I am sure the ones who make the Barbies and the Easy-Bake ovens moonlight at Keebler. While the ones who make the GI Joes and the paintball guns find work in Dungeons and Dragons Online. Like this guy, Loominus Dragoon (one of my many alter-egos).

Clear Ayes said...

Whether on a tree, or through an equine alimentary canal, C.C. can be assured that nobody is going out shopping for horse apples any time soon. Even with Dennis' edible kind, I'd shy away from asking for them at a grocery store. Who knows what the clerk might come back with?

Doesit, I'd forgotten how erotic Lolita (the book) was. "Lo-ee-ta", my....

Embien, I had the same reaction to both Kill Bills and to Pulp Fiction, gory and horribly violent, but still, somehow, funny. Quentin Tarantino movies have a way of getting under your skin.

Promise Me This, Is it just me, or does Loominus Dragoon resemble Hugo Weaving as Elrond in the Lord of the Rings movies. you were the inspiration for Pfingston's poem? I shoulda known. I spotted you for a lady's man when you first showed up on this blog.

See you all tomorrow.

Martin said...

As an aussie, my pronunciations all differ from normal American. But several things are interesting to me. I pronounce Mary to rhyme with fairy--long vowel, and merry like ferry--short "e" like in "egg". Now Barry and marry rhyme--short "a" like "cat".

Mary, fairy, wary, yes they all rhyme. They aren't quite a long a sound though. Compare "fair" and "fail". The "ai" in "fair" sounds like the "ai" in "air" but the "ai" in "fail" sounds like the "ai" in "tail".

Merry, ferry and dairy rhyme and, yes, it is a short e sound. The short e sound and the long a sound sound very similar in English, the main difference being the length of the sound. As you know, the long a sound in French is actually a long e sound as in "chez nous" or "allez vous".

Barry, marry and carry all rhyme and that's a short a sound, as you said. I find it hard to believe that people would mispronounce either "merry" or "marry" and yet be able to distinguish "sex" and "sax". I guess what Barry was trying to say is that C.C.'s not the only one who does it.

Barry still can't hear the difference between Dawn and Don and, frankly, neither can I but the key is to open your mouth wider when you pronounce Dawn. Barry could try saying the following sentence: "I caught the cat sleeping in the cot" in which case the longer au in caught should sound different from the short o in cot.


Anonymous said...

Democrat in Red State

Lets stick with comments regarding the crossword puzzle. If you want cramp thrown in this blog, I have plenty of it to sling at you regarding the Democrats.

Jeannie said...

Hey, anon at 8:39pm. If you read this blog regularly you will see it is all not crossword related. It always starts out that way but strays in many directions, and I for one learn many things and have met many friends here. I guess I'll never meet you because you don't have the balls to sign your name when attacking someone. I read Democrat in a Red State's post and all he was doing was mentioning a moment in history that most do everyday on this blog. We all obviously know his preference for a party but he's never once shoved it down anyone's throat. Lighten up and the next time you want to post have some balls and belly up to the bar and sign your name. I am a regular on this blog so I kinda know what I am talking about. I hate spineless people that take a stab at ANYONE on this blog and won't name themselves.

Sorry, C.C. I know you hate this cramp (oh, I meant crap). Another stab at you anon if you get my drift.

kazie said...

I beg to differ: the ai sounds you differentiate are different in quality, not length. To me (f)air has a totally different sound from (f)ail.

Also, dairy rhymes with wary and Mary, not with merry which has a shorter sound. To sound like merry, I'd spell it derry, as in hey, derry, derry do, or however that silly song goes.

On the merry/marry problem, it's an American thing. Many people just can't distinguish the difference, and again, I think it has to do with the strong "r" sound having an affect on the previous vowel, whereas in sex/sax that isn't a factor.

Also the dawn/don dilemma is dependent on the open "o" used exclusively in North America. British English and Continental speakers use a more clipped "o" in Don, pot, cot, etc. than in dawn, brawn, fawn. Our weaker "r" even makes corn sound the same as those "aw" sounds.

If using the international phonetic symbols, this would be easier to illustrate, but it's been 43 years and I've forgotten them, or most of them.

And anon@8:39, I guess now I know why you are so know you're a redneck when...

Jeannie said...

@Kazie on your thread... You know you're a redneck when...your password is anon (bubba), your keyboard is camouflaged, your mouse is referred to as a critter, and finally your keyboard only goes up to six.

pattispa said...

C.C.After searching the web a bit, I cam to the conclusion that Fan Tan gum is no longer manufactured. Too bad!

tan gun is no longer maufactured,

Jeannie said...

Kazie, do you have weather coming in? If not you will by Saturday. They predicted 3-5 inches here by tomorrow afternoon which only leaves me to believe it will head your way. My dad in Ludington, MI said he's already gotten 125" of snow. Granted he is about 5 miles from Lake Michigan so he gets the "lake effect" snow. Last year for his total snowfall it was 220". They are way ahead of their pace.

Sorry...this wasn't crossword related. Let's you notice an "aura" around the almost full moon tonight? There, I made it legal.

Linda said...


Martin said...

I beg to differ: the ai sounds you differentiate are different in quality, not length. To me (f)air has a totally different sound from (f)ail.

Yes and the ai in fail is a long a. As you pointed out, it's the strong r that changes the sound.

Also, dairy rhymes with wary and Mary, not with merry which has a shorter sound. To sound like merry, I'd spell it derry, as in hey, derry, derry do, or however that silly song goes.

Well, I've always heard "dairy" (as in "Dairy Queen") pronounced as "derry". The a sound in Mary is also found in dare, care, fare and wear. Anyway, it's MOOT if a lot of people can't distinguish the sounds because then that's going to affect how they pronounce them too and then how other people hear them.


Auntie Naomi said...

Jeannie said: "Lighten up and the next time you want to post have some balls and belly up to the bar and sign your name."

Sic ém girl!

For what it's worth, I think bible thumpers are brainless idiots. Never-the-less, I am pro-gun and anti-abortion ... and I am gay. Go figure! I guess I just a have a sizable pair of cajones ... much like Jeannie!

Jeannie said...

Promiseme, wow I think you are the first to officially "come out" on the blog. Good for you! I too am pro-gun, how can I not be, living among MN men/friends hunters. Hey, I've shot one deer and could't bring myself to even be pictured with it. I think it was for my Dad I did that. Now grouse hunting is a different story. The leaves are turning, you get to walk in the woods and smell all those great smells and BAM wonderful dinner in a campfire. Being the girly girl I kindof am I can't bring myself to clean them, but I'll eat 'em. Fishing, I'll bait my hook, and take them off, but my fileting skills aren't all that good. I agree, politics and religion do not belong here.

I cannot speak on your opinion of abortion, as I know in my heart it is wrong, but have seen first hand how certain cases have been the best possible solution at the time for someone. I don't want to get into a debate with you on that one.

Buckeye said...

Promise Me This. I don't care if you ARE a gun toten', anti-abortion, theological free thinking gay dude. I STILL LIKE YA.

I'd get in to all my "stuff" but Nurse Ratchet says that's the reason I'm in here. Surfice it to say, I studied Liberal Arts so long that I learned less and less about more and more until NOW - I know nothing about everything. (As opposed to Business Majors who learn more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing).


snatchbeast said...

I am not as fast as you all, and I also don't do the crosswords online but old-school newspaper style, but I am pleased that I did not need any help with this one.

Off topic, but @ Barry- I'm originally from MA and moved to OR four years ago and yes, the Mary, merry, marry thing always cracks me up. I lived near Boston but far enough away to avoid the accent. Interestingly, to me, my friend from Fall River, MA (south eastern) pronounces all Mary/merry/marry the same (he used to speak often of the Virgin Merry).

C.C. Burnikel said...

Useless Organ,
I've copied and pasted your post to today's puzzle. I don't think Barry G comes back and reads the old post.

snatchbeast said...

Ah, that makes sense! Thanks, CC =) I'm slowly starting to delurk.