Feb 27, 2010

Saturday February 27, 2010 Brad Wilber

Theme: None

Total blocks: 31

Total words: 70

Brad Wilber mentioned in his interview that "As far as the "hurray for themeless" side of the coin, I like the potential for more multiword entries and the challenge of trying to engineer the first appearance of a word or phrase". In today's puzzle, he packed 17 multiword entries, including the stacked 11s in the top and bottom of the grid.

Interesting to learn
that his seed entry is TRICK CANDLE (17A. It won't go out). I had guessed SPRUCE GOOSE (15A). Brad's original clue is "It's wind-resistant?". Which one do you like better?

I struggled again. It's really a Herculean task to complete a Brad Wilber puzzle.


1. Game with a hollow ball: TABLE TENNIS. We just call it Ping-Pong in China.

12. Pink Floyd guitarist Barrett: SYD

15. Unexpected nickname of a Hughes Aircraft plane built mostly of birch: SPRUCE GOOSE. Should be a gimme for those regulars who follow this blog. Carol & Dick's "Spruce Goose" photo was featured in our "Picture of the Day" last August.

16. Iberian land, in Olympic shorthand: POR (Portugal)

18. 2008-'09 Japanese prime minister Taro __: ASO. I confused this dude with Shinz┼Ź Abe, another Japanese prime minister.

19. Hitchhiker's need: RIDE

20. 1960s "New Left" org.: SDS (Students for a Democratic Society). Was unaware of the "New Left" moniker.

21. Hypothetical links: APE-MEN. The evolutionary hypothetical links. I was in the "IFS" direction.

24. Annual event won five times by Fred Couples: SKINS GAME. Was thinking of a regular PGA tournament. SKINS GAME is held each Nov/Dec after the PGA season. Fred Couples was nicknamed "Mr. Skins" due to his incredible dominance in this event.

26. False: Pref.: PSEUDO. As in pseudo-intellectual.

30. Announcer Hall: EDD. Announcer for "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno".

31. Slick, in a way: GLIB. In talking.

32. "Car Talk" airer: NPR. "Car Talk" has a tremendous podcast followers as well.

33. Worthless thing, in slang: DOG. New slang to me then.

34. Table d'__: HOTE. Literally "Host's Table". Same as "prix fixe".

35. Trees in giraffe diets: ACACIAS. Oh, I did not know this. Wikipedia says giraffes have a tough tongue that can withstand the thorns of acacias.

39. Upset winner at the 1992 Kentucky Derby: LIL E. TEE. No idea. What does E stand for?

41. "Dream Along With Me" singer: COMO (Perry). Here is the clip.

42. Teachers' gp.: NEA (National Education Association). I am used to the National Endowment of Arts abbr.

44. "Citizen X" actor: REA (Stephen). I've never seen "Citizen X".

45. Brand of daminozide, a growth regulator: ALAR. It's always clued as "Banned apple spray".

46. Predatory fish: GAR. The needlefish, having long jaws with needlelike teeth.

47. Men's periodical, in British slang: LAD MAG. Have never heard of this slang. Makes sense though.

51. Fixture near a playground, perhaps: PARK BENCH

54. "Yo, Hadrian!": AVE. Latin for "Yo". Hadrian is the Roman emperor from 117 to 138, total stranger to me.

55. Information technology giant: UNISYS

56. Hawk's cause: WAR

58. __ to the city: A KEY. Got the answer from Down entries. Not fond of this partial.

59. Med. checkup initials: LDL. The bad cholesterol.

60. Treasured correspondence: LOVE LETTERS. Ah, my sweet high school days!

63. Hanna-Barbera collectible: CEL

64. Ibsen classic: A DOLL'S HOUSE. Awesome entry.

65. Metal precioso: ORO. Precioso is Spanish for "precious".

66. 1975 Robert Redford title role: WALDO PEPPER. My first encounter with "The Great Waldo Pepper".


1. Instep coverer, at times: T- STRAP

2. Blooming times: APRILS. Fell into the trap and misread the clue as "Booming times".

3. Show indignation: BRIDLE

4. Time management expert?: LUCE (Henry). The founder of Time magazine. Great clue.

5. Johann __, 16th-century defender of Catholicism: ECK. Simply forgot. He argued against Martin Luther.

6. Film-noir heroes: TECS (Detectives)

7. "By Jove!": EGADS

8. Demand-based, briefly, as charter plane services: NONSKED. Nonscheduled. Got me.

9. Tacit approval: NOD

10. 1975 Elton John chart-topper: ISLAND GIRL. Didn't come to me readily.

11. Runs very slowly: SEEPS

12. Musical that parodies Arthurian legend: SPAMALOT

13. El Capitan's locale: YOSEMITE. Was ignorant of the rock formation El Capitan (The Captain) and its location.

14. One in service to the queen?: DRONE BEE. Was too slow to connect "queen" with "queen bee".

22. Anti-intellectual epithet: EGGHEAD

25. Loved one: IDOL

27. Pops open: UNCORKS. Wine.

28. Printer resolution meas.: DPI (Dots Per Inch)

29. Sunkist offering: ORANGE SODA. I've never developed a taste for soft drinks.

35. Cliff-diving mecca: ACAPULCO. JFK honeymooned here.

36. Holey vessel: COLANDER. I was picturing a leaking ship "vessel" rather than the kitchen utensil.

37. Texas Panhandle city: AMARILLO. Literally "yellow" in Spanish. All of the triple 8s in this corner are one-word entry.

38. Hannity of punditry: SEAN. He drives me nuts.

40. Rustic expanse: LEA

43. Fuse, in a way: ARC WELD. New phrase to me.

48. Reconcile: MAKE UP

49. Disinclined: AVERSE. It needs "with "to"', no?

50. Natural steam source: GEYSER

52. Constitution part, perhaps: BY LAW

53. Fox hunt cry: HALLO

57. Opp. of a petitioner, in court: RESP (Respondent)

58. Perched on: ATOP

61. 3-D stat: VOL (Volume). Why? I don't understand the rationale for this clue.

62. Handy article: THE. Definite article. "Handy" indeed.

Answer grid.



Argyle said...

Good Morning, I hope, for everybody.

Why Y? I had a dickens of a time in the NorthEast because 12Across: Pink Floyd guitarist Barrett had to spell his name with a Y instead of an I.(Syd)

What really hurts is I do know that is the way it is spelled; I just didn't catch it.

I still don't remember Lil E. Tee(39Across 1992 Kentucky Derby winner).

Your results may vary. Have a good weekend.

Dennis said...

Good morning, C.C. and gang - I loved this puzzle, because it was a battle from start to finish, and I finally got through it. Great triple-stacks, and some extremely clever cluing, led by my personal favorite, 'Yo, Hadrian!'. I also liked 'Time management expert?' and 'One in service to the queen?'
"Dream Along With Me" was a gimme, as my dad and Perry Como were golf buddies.

Unknowns included 'Lad mag', 'Edd Hall' and 'Taro Aso'. Did I mention I loved this puzzle? Really stretched out my mind; exactly what a good puzzle should do.

C.C., I don't understand your comment that prix fixe is the same as table d'hote. Did you mean that both are French? And to answer your question about 61D, an object must have three dimensions to have volume.

Today is Polar Bear Day and No Brainer Day. It's indeed a no-brainer that I won't be participating in any 'polar plunges' today.

5 & a w/u.

Gracie said...

Good morning! This puzzle did me in; I had to resort to cheating in the northeast. I had no idea about Syd and didn't get 'drone bees' though it's not really that hard. I had the monarch in mind.

Dream Along With Me is new to me, but not Perry Como whose old TV show was always watched at our house.

So many I didn't know - Taro Aso, Liletee.

But I got Spruce Goose right away!

I hope the snow is done, it's getting pretty boring! Have a great weekend.

Here's a line from our local newspaper that made me laugh this morning:

“You look at the red carpet— Paris Hilton, you know — and you think, ‘Is there anything going on up there?’ ” (Sir Anthony Hopkins)

Dennis said...

Gracie, great line from Hopkins; made me laugh too.

tfrank said...

Good morning, C.C. and Early Birds,

This was a great puzzle this morning! It really had me scratching my head, but I pulled it out a letter at a time with no lookups, as Bob says. 48 minutes online. My unknowns were Syd, Edd, Aso and Ladmag. I still don't get the cel answer to Hanna-Barbera collectible. I could not remember Eck, or Lil E. Tee.

I enjoyed having a themeless for a change, and the stacked elevens and eights were fun. I feel like I have done a day's work already, and it is a good feeling.

I also enjoyed your interview with Brad, C.C. Knowing what questions to ask requires a lot of skill.

Have a great weekend.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Too many unknowns to list here. Why make a puzzle impossible with such obscure clues? Ape men? Lad mag? Non sked? What the @#%$^& is that? Tecs? C'mon Brad......are you taking some frustrations out on us poor puzzle solvers who can't "think" like you?

lois said...

Good morning CC et al., For a Sat. puzzle, this was surprisingly easy. I didn't get everything but for a Sat, most of it fell into place.

'Spruce Goose', like CC, sent me directly to Dick & Carol. How fun! And certainly Melissa Bee came to mind w/ 14D 'drone bee' as I can only hope that she is being serviced by a whole phalanx of Chippendale-type drones.
Can't have too many of those. Actually, I asked for male strippers for my bday but got nail clippers instead, along w/'trick candles'. Not the kind of magic trick I had in mind. Dang!

Loved how 'dog' crosses 'idol' but I really don't get the clue for dog -a worthless thing. Do you say, "oh, it's a dog, just toss it." How common is that slang? Maybe it's just my 'sheltered' life. Dog ugly I've heard-like tying a pork chop around her neck just to get the dogs to play with ugly.

And I wanted Tally Ho for 53D - didn't fit. Guess I need to go on a fox hunt, but aren't they outlawed now?- at least for using real foxes? So what can they chase?
maybe a 'dog'! What chases that? 'dog's. Who chases them? Male strippers. I'm in! It's all good.

Hope you snowicaned friends are ok. Heard a report of a 91 mph gust up East somewhere...
hurricane force starts at or near 74. Hope all is well.

I need to catch up on earlier posts. Busy time of year.

Enjoy your day.

windhover said...

Anon @ 7:51,
Have you read the comments?
The people above you have solved this puzzle, so by definition it is NOT "impossible". My own puzzling skills are not up the level of many if the regulars on this blog, but that does not mean there is no pleasure or benefit derived from making the effort. If every puzzle was as easy as Monday, the better solvers would have no challenge and lose interest. I have two questions for you:
1)Is every thing else in your life designed exactly to suit you?
2) Does your self image suffer when you encounter anything that exceeds your capability?
If yes to both, then you are 1) a lucky bastard; and 2)destined for disappointment.

Argyle said...

For tfrank, re: 63A CEL. A transparent celluloid sheet on which a character, scene, etc., is drawn or painted and which constitutes one frame in the filming of an animated cartoon.

Al said...

I suspect the "worthless" meaning of DOG has something to do with a Brit expression, "The Dog's Bollocks", which means nonsense. The word DOG is in an amazingly large part of our language, which I suppose can be attributed to man's long association with his canine companion.

I'll probably waste a lot of time (screw the pooch) today, hunting down (like a dog) the rest of the origins of these now that my curiosity is up. I'm not one to let sleeping dogs lie:

Sick as a dog
Hair of the dog
Going to the dogs
Dogs of war
Dog in the manger
Dog days
Hot dogs
Put on the dog
Dog tired
Raining cats and dogs
Shaggy dog story
Every dog has its day
Dog-gone it
Mad dog
A dog's life


Larry said...

I agree with Anonymous about some clues, but really enjoyed the puzzle. Long answers can make a puzzle zip by if you get a few key ones early.

Ape men, Non sked, and Tecs not my favorites! I think sched. is much more commonly used as an abbreviation for schedule. I had never encountered sked. prior to this puzzle.

Bob said...

Nice puzzle today. Took me 42 minutes to complete, most of the clues needing some careful thought. I didn't know a couple of them, like 12A, 18A, 39A, 47A, etc. but could work them out anyway. Not as difficult as some Saturday puzzles have been.

MJ said...

Good morning, C.C., and all,
I thoroughly enjoyed this puzzle today. Lots of mind stretching for a Saturday morning. Liked the triple-stacks, with a minimum of trite fill.

Dennis, I believe C.C. is correct that "table d'hote" is synonymous with prix fixe. The menu offers very little choice, and the price is set ahead of time. BTW, I'm going with "No Brainer Day", perfect for a Saturday after the puzzle's done!

Enjoy the day!

Dennis said...

MJ, good point. I think what confused me is that while the chef's table is almost always fixed price, there's lots of occasions of 'prix fixe' that don't involve the chef's table.

anon@7:51, hopefully you're feeling better in that you got someone to respond to you, and you don't mind that most of us enjoyed the puzzle.

melissa bee said...

good morning c.c. and all,

loved LOVED this puzzle. themeless has never been my favorite, but this one (and the interview) changed my mind.

started in the northwest and just kept plugging away until i got the entire top half filled in, which was very satisfying. first long fill i got was spruce goose and that helped alot. i knew waldo pepper, but tried to plug in hubbell gardner first, which wouldn't fit. loved trick candle and love letters. hitchhiker's need/ride was so easy it was hard.

as for dog, think of a box office flop. ishtar was a real dog.

lois, THANK YOU. being serviced by a phalanx of drones is the first item on my to-do list.

tfrank said...


Thanks for the info and link on cel.
How many cels wood be required to produce a finished cartoon? Thousands?

Dennis said...

tfrank, I read once that a typical five or six minute cartoon was comprised of 4,000 to 5,000 cels.

Annette said...

You know the puzzle's going to be a challenge when your first fill is EGADS! And it was... There were a number of unkowns, but I was somehow able to make it through with red letter help and great perps.

I happened to be IMing with my sister during the puzzle. Since her husband and 2 daughters are golf fiends, she was able to give me 24A SKINS GAME easily.

Duh - I thought 54A "Yo, Hadrian!" was a "Rocky" reference, and I'd just misunderstood her name all these years!

I've seen DOG used in a positive way too. As Lois implied, Randy Jackson uses that term on American Idol often, in the way others might use "Dude". The only negative way I can visualize it being used was in an old Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie when they were in a piano bar. The woman playing the piano caught onto Rock's charade and how he was using Doris, so she started singing a song to him that called him a lying, cheating, DOG! Then again, there's the term "horn-DOG" or houndDOG...

FWIW, I have seen SKED for scheduled somewhere before this puzzle, but can't remember where.

carol said...

Hi C.C. and all -

I sincerely applaud you who got this one. I didn't do too badly on the left side, but the NE corner did me in. I knew Pink Floyd as a group, but not the people in it. Felt stupid as I saw the name of El Capitan's just would not work its way out of my brain.

I don't like 8D...I had NON STOP at first. Isn't the abbreviation for schedule: SCHED?

54A totally stumped me. I was thinking of a gang member in NYC!

Ah well, there is always a teaching moment in these hard puzzles and this one is safely tucked away.

Loved seeing the SPRUCE GOOSE again...good time meeting Dick and his wife, great people and a fun get-together.

Lemonade714 said...

Good morning:

I thought this was a nice puzzle, but rather easier than most Saturdays with all the stack fill being pretty straight forward. Lots of humor, adored YO HADRIAN, but then all Latin cluing helps me. Never heard of EDD hall, but what else is E_D? HOLEY VESSEL was also nice, and in the US TABLE D'HOTE is not used often. I think this is the at least the third time we have seen SPRUCE GOOSE in the LA Times.

Well the Olympics are almost over, more controversy but mostly fun. It is interesting to see how far the Russians have fallen, while Germany has held its own.

Jerome said...

I'm here to Talia that "Yo, Hadrian!" is literally a Sly clue.

lexi2 said...

I was glad to find you again -- recently laid off from work and now I have alot more time to complete the puzzles. I enjoyed the interview with Brad Wilber very much. Got half the puzzle w/o checking the dictionary, then had to go on-line to find "Spamalot", Lil E Tee, and Skins Game. I'll be checking back for future blog posts!

Annette said...

LOL, Jerome! I'm curious, do you know of any constructors who don't also solve a large volume of other puzzles? They just like constructing?

carol said...

Al: I think 'bollocks' also refers to a certain part of said dogs anatomy...LOL

Would someone please explain in a little more depth SKINS GAME?? If they are playing golf, where does 'skins' come in?
Also, why is Mr. Couples nicknamed 'Mr. Skins? If not golf, what ARE they doing way out on those fairways????

Argyle said...

I think clear ayes' GAH explain Skins. I want to see a skins game when they are playing with their OWN money. I'll bet their microphones will be turned off then.

Jerome said...

Annette- I think it would be correct to say that most constructors solve at least a puzzle or two a day. Do most solve a "large volume"? I'm guessing probably not, if large volume means five or six a day. The puzzles I solve daily are the LAT, NYT, and CrosSynergy. I also solve Newsday's "Saturday Stumper" and wouldn't dream of skipping a Merl Reagle Sunday.

Oddly enough, one of the most innovative and prolific constructors of all time didn't solve many puzzles- Dan Naddor.

Clear Ayes said...

Good Morning All, Brad Wilbur is my new best friend. I really liked this puzzle! It may have had to do with the fact that TABLE TENNIS, SYD and SPRUCE GOOSE came to me right away. That made the northern perps so much easier.

I didn't need Wikipedia for the 24A Fred Couples clue. Just a quick turn around to GAH and his "SKINS" answer gave me the first word.

I must have read a Nat'l Geo article recently, because ACACIAS was a no-brainer for 35A.

The southside stack wasn't too tough. A DOLL'S HOUSE was easy and even though I wanted DOWNHILL RACER (too long), or THE CANDIDATE at first, a few perps got me WALDO PEPPER. That one was a DOG as far as I am concerned.

The only fill that was totally new to me was LIL E. TEE. If I'd had a bet on him at 16-1, I'm sure I would have remembered. His name was a play on E.T. (Extra Terrestrial). How breeders come up with names is sometimes based on parentage and sometimes is just whimsical.

Melissa bee, strangely, "Ishtar" is a favorite for my sisters, daughter and me. I can't explain why, it just an anomaly that makes us laugh. You're right that it was a box office flop. (not as big as Heaven's Gate....but then I liked that one too...go figure.)

Annette said...

Thank you, Jerome. What I find amazing is how you constructors do all of that - in addition to full-time jobs, families and other aspects of life.

Clear Ayes said...

Carol and Argyle, I asked GAH about SKINS and he launched into an explanation that could have gone on for days (to paraphrase General Patton, "He does love it so!"). Unfortunately, he assumes that EVERYONE knows golf here's a very good short explanation from the internet.

Definition: Skins are what the skins game is played for. A skins game pits players in a type of match play in which each hole has a set value (usually in money or points). The player who wins the hole is said to win the "skin," and whatever that skin is worth. Skins games are often more dramatic than standard match play because holes are not halved. When players tie on a given hole, the value of that hole is carried over and added to the value of the following hole. The more ties, the greater the value of the skin and the bigger the eventual payoff. For example, a friendly skins game might be played for $1 per hole. If three holes in a row are played without a winner, then the fourth hole is worth $4 ($1 for its own value, plus a dollar for each hole that carries over).

Argyle's right. The pros don't play with their own money (sponsors pay) and it is for a lot more than $1 a skin.

Lucina said...

Buen dia, C.C. and all:
Yes, I also loved this puzzle, anon notwithstanding, and for the record, I would not do puzzles if they were easy. It's the challenge that drives me and from your comments, it's yours, too.

Spruce Goose was my first solve from having seen the Movie and Howard Hughes was so notorious in the 60s-70s.

Hadrian's wall came to mind in 54A from having seen it in GB.

Acacias are quite common here in AZ and at our local zoo I recall seeing the giraffes eating them.

I used to watch Leno sometimes and recalled Edd Hall though he is no longer with Jay.

The names drove me to Ggl. I've begun a list of some more commonly used names; my mind just doesn't hold what it once did.

I really enjoy the interviews; they provide me with greater appreciation for the construction and the thinking behind what we do so quickly (speaking relatively). It's like a delicious meal that takes hours and hours to prepare, but is eaten with great enjoyment in thirty minutes or less.

All in all, a great Saturday puzzle.
Have a wonderful Saturday, all. I have a book club meeting so we shall be discussing my second favorite activity: reading.
Adios, amigos.

Anonymous said...

Windover thanks for the dress down oh superior one who has all the answers. Why take my comments so much "to heart"? Sounds like you need everything to be perfect and go your way, not me. You shouldn't let other people's comments hurt you so badly.

Chickie said...

Hello All--My first fills were Tabletennis, Spruce Goose, and Yosemite. NEA was a gimme, but from there things went downhill fast. I circled over 20 unknowns which were either looked up on Google or finally reached with perps.

Total unknowns were Lad Mag, Skins Game, Dog, Alar, and Lil'E Tee.

I have see a portion of Hadrian's wall, but couldn't for the life of me decide what other Roman slang would fit "Yo", Duh.

I did finish eventually, but not without some real difficulty. This was a challenging puzzle, but a true learning experience for me.

I thought Moms should have gone in for time management expert, but it wouldn't fit!

I have been practicing on a crossword book I received for Christmas. It contains MANY out of the box type clues and it has sharpened my thought processes. Or so I like to believe.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Hi said...

Great puzzle & interview. Got stuck a while with "MAMA" instead of "COMO," as in Mama Cass, who also did a great rendition of this song.

Clear Ayes said...

Hi, You may be thinking of Cass Elliot's version of Dream A Little Dream Of Me. Dream Along With Me was Perry Como's TV show theme song. I don't recall Cass Elliot having a version of it....but I've been wrong before (have I ever!). Does anybody else remember anything about this?

Anonymous said...

Good evening everyone.

Windhover and Dennis: Don't feed the trolls! You know better.

Hope for some good news from the Pacific, but it doesn't sound like it will be very good. At least let's hope it's not terrible.

Time for my wine (and no more whine).


Anonymous said...

P.S Great dog list, Al. Can't think of any more.

Argyle said...

Two Cass Elliot songs:

California Earthquake

Jane, The Insane Dog Lady

Denise said...

Fun puzzle. I guess volume is a "3-D stat" in the same way area would be a "2-D stat".

Lemonade714 said...

I was talking with a cousin of mine about this puzzle, and she was quick to remine me that I had saved many old LOVE LETTERS from my youth; I had forgotten, but when she came to visit, she went through my boxes of the past.

Welcome new people, I like having a "Denise" to balance Dennis. maybe we could get a bunch of opposites; hmm, where are you LIMEADE 417?

Bill G. said...

Since I don't care for difficult themeless puzzles, I didn't bother with it but came straight here to find out how everybody was doing and what they were thinking about.

What do you do when a friend, relative or acquaintance makes a mistake in grammar or usage? Do you point out the error in a friendly way or ignore it? Maybe he says "with my wife and I." Or pronounces realtor as real-a-tor. Or, as George Bush did, pronounces nuclear as nu-cu-ler. Or says "I felt badly for him" Is it better to politely point out the mistake or ignore it? Nobody likes to be told they're speaking incorrectly but I wouldn't like to go on making a mistake again and again out of ignorance.

My daughter told me that I often said "different than" rather than "different from." I researched it a bit, found out she was correct and have tried to avoid that mistake since. I appreciated her input. I'm not sure what she thought when I pointed out to her a few days ago that she wasn't correct to say something was more or less unique. But some people might take offence about being corrected. What do YOU do?

Bill G. said...

I think one of the reasons I have experienced a new-found enjoyment of curling is the excellent sportmanship of the participants.

Oh Canada!

mpk18 said...

Bill G.

You are bringing up a subject that weighs heavily on my heart (and mind) - - to correct or not. All of your examples make me grind my teeth down to the gums. And yet, the act of correcting makes me feel presumptuous, supercilious and downright smarmy. So I usually chicken out and shut up.

However, the usage of "different from" and "different than" seems to be a whole nother (a favorite of mine).

This website explains what I'm talking about much better than could. Check it out. (Don't know how to embed.)

carol said...

Bill G - interesting question on what makes one grind their teeth over bad grammar. I certainly am no expert but there are certain phrases that make me shudder. I never say anything though as I know I make many mistakes in LOTS of other areas. Some of my 'favorite' grinders:
Using anxious instead of eager; "I am anxious to hear the story"
Double negatives..."I didn't do nothing about it"
and last but not least:
"Me and John went to the store"

Jazzbumpa said...

Hi gang -

I though this was a great puzzle. Worked it on the drive to T-town. Got some help from the LW on ISLAND GIRL. I have no recollection of that song.

I didn't time myself, but it had to be over an hour. Many unknowns, and I thought the North East would remain uncharted for the longest time.

DRONE BEE is probably my fav fill, but this puzzle has lots of sparkle, from the fill and the clues.

Eventually the perps fell, and it all came together. We were already in T-town, just a few blocks from my M-I-L's house when it was finshed.

Least fav is A KEY. Having an article in the answer is lame.

Also not fond of NONSKED,but it can be G-spotted.


I believe Perry COMO and Dean Martin are first cousins.


Legs are very heavy today.

JzB the do-si-do trombonist

Annette said...

Bill G: Since you ask, my opinion is if you can understand what the person meant, then you should just grit your teeth and ignore it.

It also depends on the relationship between the two people, and whether it's done in a nice way and discreetly. Apparently, she thought you'd be receptive to the correction, and it sounds like you were. If you're ever in doubt, then you should keep quiet.

My b-i-l just started attending Alzheimer's caregiver support sessions to help cope with his mother's condition. Last week, he learned "It's better to be kind, than right."

I'm sure people THINK they're being kind by correcting someone's mistakes, but the receiver may not take it kindly...

Bill G. said...

Carol said: "and last but not least,
Me and John went to the store"

When we would say something like that as a kid, our mothers would say, "Can John and ??" and we would be forced to reply 'Can John and I go to the store,' making it feel like 'me' was always wrong. So now people who were always corrected like that by their mothers often say something like 'for Michelle and I' including Barack Obama in an interview. My wife feels like part of the problem is with our middle school education where formal grammar, diagramming sentences, etc. is almost not taught anymore. I would love to hear my kids trying to explain the difference between a subject and an object in a sentence.

MPK18, I enjoyed that website. I thought of some more examples: Less pencils rather than fewer pencils. He got his 'just desserts' rather than 'just deserts.' Flaunt the law rather than flout the law. I had a teaching collegue who would always say 'laxidaisical' rather than 'lackadaisical.' (She was probably confused by the word lax.) I still have trouble using comprised correctly.

Bill G. said...

Annette said:"Last week, he learned 'It's better to be kind, than right.'
I'm sure people THINK they're being kind by correcting someone's mistakes, but the receiver may not take it kindly..."

Excellent point. Thanks.

Dot said...

To correct or not to correct. That is the question. I think it depends on the culprit. A son, daughter or spouse should appreciate the correction and not be offended unless you do it publicly. If it is a friend or just an acquaintance, I would not mention it. If it is possible in the conversation to use the same phrase correctly, then I would do that and hope the person notices the correct usage.

I agree with Carol on the "Me and John went...." So many young people say this, including college graduates. If I hear one of my grandkids or one of their friends whom I taught in fourth grade say this, I clear my throat and stare (glare?) at him until he corrects himself. However, I find that my grammar has become a lot worse in the last couple of years. Is that a sign of old age or lazy speech?

Is metal in Spanish still metal? If not, should the Spanish form be used for 65a?


mpk18 said...

I was waiting for a reply from Bill G when I read Annette's post. Thank you so very much.

"It is better to be kind than right."

How on earth could I ever forget that.

Anonymous said...

What a lovely meeting place this is! Most of my earlier timidity has passed, but a late-night Manhattan does help to loosen the brain (tongue, fingers, whatever).

Good nightl.

Anonymous said...

That wasn't anonymous, it was I!!! (Not 'me'.) mpk 18

Lucina said...

Yes, metal in Spanish is metal, with the accent on the last syllable, so the clue and the answer correspond. If you heard it said in Spanish it would sound altogether different.

Bill G. and others:
I am so glad to hear I'm not the only one bothered by incorrect grammar. I also grit my teeth because the corrections would be too numerous and the conversation lost. The only one I correct is my daughter because she knows better. I have a friend who does correct everyone at any time and no one appreciates it. In fact, there is underlying resentment toward her.

Good night, All.

carol said...

Annette: I agree that correcting someones grammar depends on who they are in relation to you. The thought 'better to be kind than right' says volumes. So true.

Dot: If your grammar has become worse in the last few years, it is not a sign of age so much as it is hearing a constant miss-use of it...sort of wears one down and next thing you know, you're using words in all the wrong context :)
Hey, just AXE me, I know it all - LOL
Geez, don't you just hate THAT usage?!
I hear it soooo much.

Bill G: I agree, the 'I vs me' is a real problem for so many. My hubby still goofs up on that once in a while but I do correct him, and he doesn't mind. I tell him, you are judged by the way you speak.

Sure hope I don't come off sounding like the 'grammar cop'...:) if so, I am sure someone will tell me.

Lemonade714 said...

As far as correcting grammar, the world evolves and what I learned was correct is no longer so (e.g. there are texts which use good and well interchangeably; contact has become a verb; and, you can imply and infer at the same time) as a reult, I seldom express my old fahioned views. However, for my children and other loved ones, I do make a point of explaining what I learned. I do correct "have went" and other egregious errors.

As far as professional golfers and skins games. they most certainly do bet their own money, almost every chance they get. While the bets are seldom as large as the tv events, they do not like to lose even a $5.00 nassau. They also pay for sandies, and other esoteric bets.

US won bobsled gold for the first time since before I was born, wow.

windhover said...

Well, guess I need to weigh in on this one. Here is my rule: if the person is someone I care about, i.e., someone I
would not want to make the same mistake elsewhere and thereby embarass themself, I correct. If it is not, I do not.

I personally don't mind being corrected, and often am.

JD said...

Good evening all,

I totally celebrated "no brainer" day, as I didn't have time to put much thought into this clever c/w, and for me it would have taken lots of time. Almost completed the top third. Loved Spruce Goose (saw it in So. CA), skins game (have slept thru many on much better than a sleeping pill), and Yosemite (everybody must see it in the spring). I have no idea when ping pong became table tennis, CC. Does it sound more elite?

I enjoy compiling lists; hope none of these are repeats. I liked yours, Al.
doggin' it
hot diggity dog (Como)
top dog
dog ass = inferior :(
road dog (best friend)

am very excited for tomorrow's hockey game.Our Sharks have done well.

no tsunami...I'm aloha ready

Jazzbumpa said...

I have no rule on correcting, but take it on a case-by-case basis. I might make different decisions on the same person making the same error in different situations.

The rule on fewer vs less is use fewer if the things are countable, and less if they are non-countable or collective.

I ate fewer hot dogs and less pudding. I would go for less white rice, since I'm not about to count the grains.

But this is a losing battle, I fear. "Fewer"'s days are numbered. So I'd just say there are less of them left than me do prefers.

JzB the married-to-a-gramma(r) trombonist

Dennis said...

As someone whose father constantly preached the importance of correct spelling and grammar, and that 'there's a perfect word for everything', I too flinch when I hear some of the typical grammatical gaffes. However, I think it's really presumptuous to correct all but those near and dear to you. As with Windhover, I'd always want to be corrected, but I'm not going to presume that most others do.

mpk18, great website; thanks.

Clear Ayes said...

Bill G, I remember a few years ago I was reading a magazine article aloud to my brother-in-law. I really wasn't paying that much attention to the content. As I was reading, I said something like "Blah...blah he said, in a self-depreciating manner."

I misread it, of course it was "self-deprecating" and I do know the meaning and usage. I was simply caught in a quick mush-mouth brain freeze.

But my b-i-l took the opportunity to interrupt me and to "educate" me on the definitions of "depreciate" and "deprecate". I just laughed it off, but obviously I haven't forgotten it. It ticked me off then and it still does.

I've been corrected on many other occasions by other people and I've been completely OK with it. It all depends on the person and the circumstances.

I'll correct grammar mistakes made by my grandchildren, but that's it. My daughter has already heard it all.

Lemonade, true enough about golf betting. I was thinking only of the million dollar TV skins games.
(GAH has often come home $10 richer. Yippee!)

Lucina said...

See how easy it is to err? I just caught it: "resentment against" not toward (my previous post).