Oct 25, 2008

Saturday October 25, 2008 Allan E. Parrish

Theme: None

Total blocks: 27

Total words: 72

FYI, the maximum word count for a Saturday 15*15 themeless is 72 (78 for Monday-Friday themed puzzle and 142 for Sunday 21*21). The maximum block (black square) count for a 15*15 is 38, though LA Times sets a limit of 43.

I like today's grid. It looks pretty. Perfect symmetry of INTEGRA (2D: One-time Acura model) and ELANTRA (41D: Hyundai model).

But some of the clues/answers are way obscure to me. "Was in Bologna" (57D: ERO)? I don't even know what "Is" is in Bologna. Had never heard of DEIRDRE (59A: Ill-starred lady of Celtic legend). How sad, she committed suicide after her husband was murdered.

MACHO (47A) clue should be "He-man like" rather than "Heman like". The clue for SAME SEX (42D: Man-to-man?) just felt weird to me.


1A: Number on a letter: ZIP CODE

8A: Hockey-surface smoother: ZAMBONI. Not a hockey fan. Have never heard of ZAMBONI machine before. It's named after its inventor Frank ZAMBONI.

16A: Saw-tooth ranges: SIERRAS

17A: Was humiliated: ATE DIRT

18A: One type of signal transmission: AM RADIO. Do you know why some talk shows are on AM RADIO while some choose FM RADIO?

20A: Sternutations: SNEEZES. "Sternutation" is a new word to me. Strange, the verb "sternutate" is not a word in my dictionary.

26A: Kingston Trio hit: M.T.A. Here is the song. Learned from doing Xword. Their band name really sounds like a reggae group from Jamaica.

30A: Masonic doorkeeper: TILER. Was this a gimme to you? I was stumped last time and again today. It's also spelled as TYLER.

31A: City near Oakland: SAN MATEO. Wikipedia says both Merv Griffin and Tom Brady were born here.

33A: Initial ones: FIRSTS. I was thinking of ABCDE's.

35A: Hindu title: BABU. Funny "Seinfeld" BABU blooper.

36A: Prepare: GET SET

39A: Dissenting religious beliefs: HERESIES

45A: Electric-coil creator: TESLA. Struggled with this one also. I am used to the "Magnetic unit" clue.

49A: Whack: SLAM

50A: Free-throw value: ONE. Lots of NBA fans in China. I had never heard of baseball before I came to the US.

51A: Fishing weights: SINKERS. It's baseball term too.

54A: "Star Wars" character: HAN SOLO. What's your favorite Harrison Ford movie?

56A: Earliest flicks: SILENTS

61A: Charlie Parker's instrument: ALTO SAX. I could only think of SAXOPHONE.


8D: One Gabor: ZSA ZSA

9D: __ Semple McPherson: AIMEE. Absolutely no idea. Here is more information. Our editor used to clue AIMEE as "Actress Anouk".

12D: Tough times: ORDEALS

13D: Carpenter's tool: NAILSET. See this picture.

14D: Chemical compounds: ISOMERS. And ANE (53A: Chemical suffix).

21D: Within: pref.: ENTO. "Outside: pref." is ECTO.

24D: All together: EN MASSE. I wanted ENTIRE. I dislike how EN MASSE intersects AMASS (43A: Store up), visually jarring to me.

26D: Computer invaders: VIRUSES

28D: Revere's cohort: DAWES (William). I forgot. I think I googled his name before.

30D: Land of lamas: TIBET. I misread "lamas" as "llamas", so my first thought was PERU.

35D: D.C. suburb: BETHESDA. I forgot. It's in Maryland. According to Wikipedia, it's "the best-educated city in the United States of America with a population of 50,000 or more."

36D: Alternative fuel: GASOHOL. GASO(line) + (alco)HOL. I would not have got it without across clues. Only familiar with ethanol.

37D: Spring (from): EMANATE

40D: Archipelago segments: ISLANDS

47D: La Scala city: MILAN. And NY, London & Paris, fashion capitals of the world.



Martin said...

30 min 26s (versus 25 min 51 s yesterday) but that was with a LOT of guessing: I didn't realize "Saw toothed ranges" was referring to mountains, didn't know what a sternutation was, didn't know anything about the Kingston Trio, the Oakland area, the D.C. area, Hindu culture, Charlie Parker or Celtic legends and thought an OTTOMAN was a kind of sofa. I also wanted LOST OUT for ATE DIRT (and that only gave me the last letter).

Things to notice: INTEGRA was (180 degree) symmetric with ELANTRA, EN MASSE crossed with AMASS and SILENTS (I wanted TALKIES) rhymes with TALENTS.

I remember using the term "en masse" in the Philippines and when students looked confused I said "en masse… it's French… it means… um… altogether" and then one of the students said "Why are you speaking to us in French?"

Oh, by the way, C.C., a couple of days I typed "without bring an umbrella" when I meant to type "without bringing an umbrella". I guess I typed without thinking. :)


Chris in LA said...

Good morning CC etal,
I like Saturday themeless (or as I think of them "long-word") puzzles and a special treat today was no need to visit google!
Only hesitation was "mta"/"ento" cross - ento sounded right & was unfamiliar with mta. Guessed the "t" then googled for correct and I was! All other stumpers presented on the perps with a few SWAGs that worked out for me. All and all a good start to the day.

Geaux Tigers, Go Bucks!

Happy Saturday to all - yardwork in the morning then football all afternoon & evening. It doesn't get much better than this!

Dick said...

Good morning Cc, DFs and DFettes..just checking in thday. I do not have time to do the puzzle this am but will work on it later. I have been out of town for a few days and will be leaving soon to go see my 7 year granddaughter. She has become quite the equestrian and will be in a horse show tomorrow. Now grandpa can suck in his breath every time she approaches a jump and exhale when completed.

Hope you all have a great week end.

Bill said...

Wow! What a refreshing change fromthe last two days. No "G" and actually got all the answers and understood them!Yes, CC, tiler was a gimme. I have a very good friend who is a Mason and we've discussed some of the positions at length.
Don't know why talk shows are mostly on AM stations. Here in the NE there are very few (if any) on FM stations. I've often wondered the same thing.
Busy today. Lots of rain. Visit to Mom at NH and a benefit for a good friend of mine who passed away while we were on vacation.
One of those JAM sessions we talked about the other day!
CY'all later.

Anonymous said...

Aha, it does pay to watch "Ace of Cakes" on Food Network. He made a cake in the shape of a ZAMBONI and it was the talk of the shop. This puzzle didn't seem like a Saturday puzzle.....much too easy! Not complaining tho...nice for a change.
Off to set up the altar for tomorrow's services.

KittyB said...

Good Morning, C.C. and all.

C.C., I totally agree with your opening comments on ERO and DEIRDRE. I was doing the puzzle without my glasses and thought the clue for MACHO was "Herman-like." I was trying to think of a description for Herman Munster. I suppose since it's close to Halloween, that made sense to my not-quite-awake mind.

I managed to finish this puzzle with out any assistance (with the exception of the computer telling me that I didn't know how to spell AIMEE). It took me about fourteen and a half minutes. I was surprised that I finished it, given how rocky a start I'd had. I did the across clues first, and got perhaps six answers. The down answers were much easier

I read the clue for 30D, "Land of lamas," and spent some time trying to think which South American country ended in "T" before the light dawned. Bill, I think I needed a second mug of tea for this puzzle! *G* (Of course, the answer was TIBET. Lamas, not llamas.)

I really wanted "Rangers" where ZEALOTS went, and I need to memorize TILER.

Dick, I hope your granddaughter comes through shining. We'll be holding our breath with you. *S*

We have a very busy day planned that will take us late into the evening, so I may miss the comments later today. You can be sure I'll come to read them on the chance that they will be half as entertaining as yesterdays.

Have a great Saturday, everyone!

Chris in LA said...

@ Dick: Good luck to your grand - little kids are fearless, aren't they? I'm sure she'll do well - besides, they "bounce" better than we do.

I recall that we saw "tiler" a month or so ago.

@ CC, Bill & others re: talk shows on AM radio - the AM frequencies travel farther than FM. I recall from school that there's math behind it, but don't recall details. Some super-staions are able to "amp-up" their signals after 7pm (not sure why) - I've been able to pick up New Orleans AM radio (870) as far away as Cleveland, Ohio in the evening and have picked up St. Louis & Chicago stations at night down here.

Carpe Diem!

Martin said...


There are talk shows on AM radio because AM radio gets more static compared to FM radio so FM radio plays music while AM radio has talk shows.


Martin said...


AM radio travels farther because it is a lower frequency than FM radio. They tell people to stay away from radio broadcast towers because they are afraid of liability in case the radio frequencies were high enough that people would get cooked. The people on Mythbusters (on the Discovery Channel) wanted to stick a raw chicken on a radio tower to see if it would cook but no radio station would let them get near their tower. Anyway, the AM frequencies are much lower and they definitely pass harmlessly through just about anything and that's why the signal travels farther.


Jeanne said...

Morning all,

If I could read, lamas rather than llamas, spell Deidre vs. Deirdre, and remember words like Dawes, I would be much better at x/words!!! It really wasn't bad for a Saturday. As for the man-to-man? clue, I was hoping for something a little more DF.

Between Penn State football and Phillies, lots of channeling switching tonight. Have a relaxing weekend everyone.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Yeah, you need to set high standards for yourself in terms of grammar/choices of words because I look up to you.

Chris & Barb,
Can you explain to me these two proverbs:

“First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

“A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country.”

Dennis said...

Good morning, c.c. and gang - very unusual today -- a sub-five minute Saturday puzzle.

As others have said, "tilers" is a repeat from not too long ago, as is "nail set". "Sternulations" actually appeared recently on one of my 'word a day' dictionaries, otherwise I wouldn't have had a clue.

First flag-football game of the season today - I've moved from receiver to QB because of the toe, so this should be interesting. It's an over-50 league, so everything appears to be in slow-motion. Plus, it's raining. I'll check in later from whatever hospital bed I'm in.

Have a great weekend and GO PHILLIES!

C.C. Burnikel said...

Kittyb & Bill,
Do "musical instruments" really symbolize "brevity and the ephemeral nature of life"?

Is "AYIEE" an exclamation similar to "Ayup"?

Hospital bed? It does not sound like a slow-motion game to me. Tonight belongs to Matt Garza!

What does "Moose in heat" mean?

What are "whirred peas"?

Barry G. said...

Morning, folks!

Well, today's puzzle was certainly not a walk through the park, but I was able to get through it unassisted thanks to some educated guessing.

I did not know DIERDRE or ERO, but guessed correctly at the "R" that linked them. I also didn't know (or simply forgot) BABU and AIMEE, but I was finally able to get them via the perps. I've seen the word "sternutations" before, even though I couldn't remember what it meant at first, but it was enough that I could get SNEEZES with only a perp or two to help.

I had NAIL GUN instead of NAIL SET at first, which messed me up a bit, but thenm I remembered that NAIL SET was in a puzzle fairly recently. And thankfully I'm up on my Boston history and remembered that DAWES rode with Paul Revere (I think he was also in a puzzle recently, or was that REVERE?).

Oh -- and I'm not even remotely a hockey fan, but I did know what a Zamboni was. It's just one of those great words it's nice to know.

[And C. C. -- AYUP means "yes". AIYEE means "oh no!!!"]

Chris in LA said...

@ CC: re: quotes
"beam from your eye" quote is similar to "physician heal thyself" from the other day - basically make sure your own house is in order before you criticize your neighbors, although I'm not sure where the "beam" reference comes from.
"Prophet" quote references being taking for granted, i.e., one is only appreciated for their good deeds outside of those who have become accustomed to, and therefore expect, their good deeds.

@ Martin - thanks. I think it also has something to do with amplitude modification (AM), or height of the radio waves versus frequency modification (FM) or "occurence" of the waves relative to how they travel through the air and over the landscape, although that's really stretching my high school physics memory to the very limit and I would certainly defer to those who are more expert than I in such matters.

Dennis said...

c.c., Garza?? I thought you were rooting for the Phils?

Chris in LA said...

PS @ Phillies fans:
Still rooting for the Rays - I'm an Indian's fan myself, and so always root for an underdog. Worst-to-first, one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, you gotta love it.

Speaking of underdogs - have you seen the movie? I think it's terrific, LMAO.

Here's a link to "Ted's Band" from the TV show "Scrubs" - third song in is one of the best renditions of the them from Underdog ever (IMHO) - it's a little long, but the rendition of "Over the Rainbow" at the end is also great:

Great day!

Dennis said...

Just an FYI - at the beginning of the Series, the Rays were, and still are, the Las Vegas favorite to win the Series. I believe that makes the Phillies the underdogs.

JD said...

No time to read blog or do puzzle . Will take yesterday's and today's on trip.

Chris in LA said...

Thanks for the correction, I didn't know the odds (not much of a gambler) and perception is reality - my perception, given the circumstances, was that the Rays were the underdog.

Anonymous said...

Or as Ogden Nash put it:

One L lama ia a priest.
Two L llama is a beast.
And I will bet my silk pajama,
There isn't any 3 L Lama.

and that is why I got Tibet instead of somewhere in South America.

Bill said...

CC, I have no clue but I found this (but, I don't know the symbolism involved or the reasoning)

In the arts, vanitas is a type of symbolic still life painting. The term vanitas itself refers to the arts, learning and time. The word is Latin, meaning 'emptiness' and loosely translated corresponds to the meaningless of earthly life and the transient nature of vanity. Paintings executed in the vanitas style are meant as a reminder of the transience of life, the futility of pleasure an the certainty of death, encouraging a sombre world view.

Common vanitas symbols include:
- Skulls, which are a reminder of the certainty of death;
- Rotten fruit, which symbolizes decay like aging;
- Bubbles, which symbolize the brevity of life and suddenness of death;
- smoke, watches and hourglasses, which symbolize the brevity of life; and
- musical instruments, which symbolize brevity and the ephemeral nature of life.

carol said...

Happy Saturday C.C.and all, Great puzzle until I hit the SE corner..I truly drew a blank! I managed to get 56A and 40D but the rest,oh well. Sad to say did not even get 42D.
27A Had me thinking electric current at first.
57D Isn't that what Cokato did last night in the "shed"? It was dark, so I'm not sure.

Bill, I am so sorry about your friend.

Dick, good for your grand-daughter and at the tender age of 7! :)

Dennis, why is it "flag"football and not "touch"? Oh, I guess you wouldn't want to be a "tight end"!

Clear Ayes said...

Good Morning All, Like Kittyb, I started without my glasses, "Heman-like" started me thinking about a Munsters family answer and "Land of lamas" became search for a five-letter South American country or area. But, by the time I finished my first cup of coffee, my glasses were located and I was able to shake my head at my foolishness.

Anything else I didn't know, TILER, GASOHOL, DIERDRE, were taken care of with the surrounds.

Sinclair Lewis based the woman evangelist in "Elmer Gantry" on AIMEE Semple McPherson. Elmer Gantry is an excellent book. The 1960 movie version starred Burt Lancaster at his most charismatic.

Today is St. Crispin's (Crispian) Day. That is pretty obscure information, but the Battle of Agincourt was fought on October 25, 1415. The battle was made famous by Shakespeare in a speech in "Henry V".

Here's Kenneth Branagh's version. Crispin's Day. Shakespeare's speeches often make beautiful stand-alone poetry. This is a favorite of mine.

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day until the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today who sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks,
That fought with us upon St. Crispin's day!

noodle said...

I still don't get: 44A (film-set call) and 39D (Twain hero briefly)

Clear Ayes said...

Noodle, 44A - A director yells "CUT" at the end of a scene. 39D - HUCK is a nickname for Huckleberry Finn.

ali said...

I just happened upon this blog while using Google to help with todays puzzle. How great is this!
For clear eyes, Cut is what the director says to end a scene, and Huck is short for Huckleberry Finn.
Go Rays!

Anonymous said...

Too bad some of these constructors take too many liberties with geography. The Sawtooths are a range here in Idaho (and not at all associated with the California Sierra's). Much of it is protected wilderness and very enjoyable to go camping in. Here is a site for some real time images: Sawtooth Camera

DoesItinInk said...

This was an easy puzzle except where ERO and DIERDRE crossed. I thought the name was spelled DIEDRE.

The "lama" clue reminded me of Ogden Nash's poem:

The one-l lama,
He's a priest.
The two-l llama,
He's a beast.
And I will bet
A silk pajama
There isn't any
Three-l lllama.*

To which Nash appended the footnote *The author's attention has been called to a type of conflagration known as a three-alarmer. Pooh.

ski said...

Hi All,

I think I just lost my post so I will try again (using copy before pressing post) that was sure frustrating.

I have done the puzzle on-line the last 2 days. Thanks to all who have mentioned that method. I did about 50% without spelling highlight and then switched options. It took me about 20 minutes, which for me is short especially for a Saturday puzzle.

@c.c. and chris: I believe the "beam" refers to sunlight or another beam of light that would blind you if shined in your eyes.

@c.c., thanks for the Seinfeld clip. I always found it amazing how they could pack so much stuff into one half-hour show.

Since I am still frustrated about losing my last post and I have to get back to work, I will have to say good-bye for now from Gresham, Oregon where it is nice and sunny.

Take care all!

DoesItinInk said...

@anonymous: Sorry, I did not see your posting of Ogden Nash's poem before I reposted it.

Here is the Kingston Trio singing the MTA.

lois said...

Good afternoon CC & DF's: Fun puzzle and on Sat. too! Go figure! 'Ate dirt' made me laugh. Reminded me of Fuller's restaurant that was around here for yers where you could 'eat dirt cheap'. Great hot dogs.

CC: I've always heard about the sounds a bull moose in heat makes. They must be pretty raucous. Then when Carl bought a moose lighter, it's a different moose in a different heat, but pretty appropriate for the crowd he was 'servicing'.

Dennis: Good luck w/being the QB. That was the 'special' position whenever I played football. I was always the center. Cheap thrills.
With me coming as a nun (modified lightning rod installed...whoo hoo)we may both be saying some Hail Marys today. Hope you win and break records...not bones.

KittyB said...

C.C.,I wasn't even sure what you were asking until Bill provided a little more light on the subject.

In general, I don't think of musical instruments as being ephemeral or representative of a brief life, but the music they create is certainly ephemeral, so the symbolism makes sense.

Mr. Ed said...

Good morning C.C. & all

For me, this was a very good but difficult puzzle. I had a lot of false starts and my completed grid is very ugly from all the overwrites. I won't be a boor by listing them but I too thought Sierras was lame. But, in the end it's a blackout.

Re: AM vs FM radio... I could write a book on this one but AM's popularity has faded due to better signal clarity on FM due to Frequency Modulation vs Amplitude Modulation. So, AM has lost most of its music listeners to FM. Left with declining ratings and advertising dollars, AM has gone to other targets with specialized programming such as talk, sports, & whatever they can sell. I was going to write more about the reasons listenability improves at night, and frying chickens on broadcast towers, but that's another book entirely. And, btw... the answer is; no, with qualifiers. The chicken would have to be placed at exactly the correct spot on the tower. Would it cook? No! Would it get RF burns? Yes! Been there, done that!

@C.C. 'whirred peas' is a take-off of the usual beauty pageant contestant's answer of a desire for 'world peace'. In my 'twisted' brain, she might as well be asking for peas that have been beaten(in a blender or beater) to a point resembling overcooked split-pea soup. It's just a phrase substitution for 'world peace' or in Barry's case, 'world peas'. And, although probably more logical, whirred potatoes doesn't work for me.

@lois... sure! Just pass the moose! (or buck) I guess that doesn't work because they're bulls. But, you can pass the bull if you want.

This is much longer than planned but more only makes it worse. So, I'm outta here. I can be found in the woodshed.


Anonymous said...

With regard to the beam in the eye, it refers to a large piece of wood as compared to a little piece of wood, using them as comparisons of a big fault of your own in with a small one of your neighbor.
Luke 6:42 International Standard Version (©2008) "How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you don't see the beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you'll see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Clear Ayes said...

Ski, Always a good idea to Copy before Publish. I have learned the hard way too. Thanks Dennis for original advice. It has saved me aggravating re-writes several times.

Ali @ 11:45, It was Noodle @11.22 who had problems with CUT and HUCK.

BTW, welcome to both of you.

Anon @ 11:58. About "Saw-tooth range", I live not too far from the Sierra country of California. Although the Sawtooth Range in Idaho is located in the Rockies, there is Sawtooth in California's Tahoe National Park Sawtooth Ridge. There is also Sawtooth Peak located in California's Sequoia National Park. According to Wikipedia, there are also Sawtooth ranges, peaks and ridges in Montana, Colorado, Minnesota, Arizona and Canada. It seems to be a pretty popular name.

Lois, Bull moose in rut sure get heated up, and apparently grunt a lot. But it is the ladies that are in heat and rarin' to go, that attract the guys from miles around by their siren calls. (We can relate to that. LOL) Here is a Bull Magnet video that is hysterical if you look at it with a DF/DFette viewpoint.

embien said...

10:16 today. An enjoyable puzzle from start to finish. TILER, BABU and ERO were my only unknowns (all got via the crosses). I love a themeless where the constructor doesn't resort to IES or ER affixes to make artificially long words.

c.c.: 47D: La Scala city: MILAN. And NY, London & Paris, fashion capitals of the world.

La Scala is the name of the opera house in Milan. I'm not sure what fashion has to do with it?

@anonymous 11:58: Too bad some of these constructors take too many liberties with geography. The Sawtooths are a range here in Idaho (and not at all associated with the California Sierra's).

The clue is 16a: Saw-tooth ranges (SIERRAS) (note the hyphen in the clue) and doesn't refer specifically to the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho. It's a generic term for mountain ranges that resemble a saw's teeth.

From a chain of hills or mountains, the peaks of which suggest the teeth of a saw. ref: sierra

Crossword constructors are forever putting in clues that lead one down the wrong path (witness the "lama" land entry today, which many misread).

As a former broadcast band DXer, the reason that AM signals travel farther at night is that the frequencies are low enough to bounce off the ionosphere, hence travelling further. FM wavelengths are too short to be reflected and just head out into space, passing right through the ionosphere.

It's the same principle that enables "short wave" broadcasts to be heard at enormous distances--sometimes around the world.

ski said...

@calef, thanks, I have never studied the bible.

Your explanation of the "beam" and the "speck" make good sense.

C.C. Burnikel said...

Dennis & Chris,
Why do everybody want to be an underdog?

Bill & Kittyb,
Wikipedia is where I got the "musical instruments" remark initially. I did not understand it and was curious to know if you two were aware of the symbolism.

re: "AYIEE". Wow, I misunderstood Argyle big time. Thanks for correcting me.

Don't question your insanity again. I need to question mine.

C.C. Burnikel said...

I've already linked the same Kingston Trio hit in the main blog entry.

Calef & Jimbo,
Do you read Bible every day? I've noticed that both of you (and Barb B) have very profound understanding of the Book.

Whenever I think of Milan, I think of fashion and fashion week, as it is one of the big 4 fashion capitals. You are right, La Scala has nothing to do with my comment.

C.C. Burnikel said...

I am curious, are you a she or a he?

Lois & Carl,
Thanks for the answers.

I forgot to mention earlier that you've impressed me with your Bible knowledge too.

kazie said...

Hi everyone!
I'm late getting here today as I was working this morning proctoring an exam, and could do the puzzle in between circulating, but had no way to google. Hence I was very proud to get it all out through guesses and crosses except for having mda instead of mta for the Kingston Trio song. I think endo works like ento, and so of course, chose the wrong one.

I also have never heard sternutations before, though I just found it in OED, But I guessed it from the French éternuer = to sneeze, because French words beginning with "ép", "équ" or "ét" often replace that "é" with an "s" when translated into English.

Mr. Ed said...

@embien - nice write on ionosphere bounce.

I will add - the lower on the AM dial, the shorter the wavelength and the less power it takes to reach a specified distance. Then another part of the AM question comes into play. That deals with FCC regulation which requires non interference between stations sharing the same dial location. So, some stations are required to sign off at night. Some others are required to use directional tower arrays to limit signal in certain directions to avoid overlap. Some are allowed to use a single tower for a circular pattern of coverage during the day and a directional array at night. Some are required to reduce their power output at night. So, if your AM station comes in better at night, it could be a combination of any or all the above plus the Ionosphere bounce. Off the top of my head, I know of no station in the U.S. that is allowed to increase its power output at night. Some off-shore stations did in the past but I'm not sure they still exist because of the switch to FM as the music source. There were real 'boomers' in Mexico and Canada putting out twice the power of U.S. stations.
But, I do go on, and on..... what was the question????? No! I didn't try cooking a chicken. No fowl was harmed in my experience but I can testify that RF burns(even minor) are painful.


kazie said...

Oops, I forgot, I was going to mention the prophet's lack of honor in his own land quote too. It means that someone famous is often not appreciated in his own backyard.

Frank Lloyd Wright, internationally renowned architect, was born in our town here in Wisconsin. But the older citizens here think he was terrible, because he never paid his bills and led an immoral life.

lois said...

Clear Ayes: thank you for the info on rut (male)and heat (female), right? And that hilarious moose calling clip.Yeah, I'm used to a different 'broad' hunting strategy but that 'broad' hunting strategy adds a whole new meaning to taking the bull by the horns! What a 'hoot'!!

Carl: Bless you, my brother. (I'm practicing for tonight) I would never pass up a buck or a bull, esp a bucking bull..session. Heaven knows, I'd rather ride that sucker! (I think I'm getting the hang of this.) Now blame is a different story of Biblical proportions. My friend, you're not to blame. It was the moose who brought the heat (must've been a female)...seeing the light here, Carl? You were just doing your 'duty' and rendering a 'service' for mankind (and womankind...some wild and crazy kind of women too!)You are a thoughtful soul. May the blessings of the universe rest on your noble shoulders and morel character. 'Go in piece'and 'serve us' again.

I think I got it down, but dang it's dark in here. Carl? Ok, but stroke the moose first, there brother.

Anonymous said...

C.C. I don't claim to be a Bible Scholar, but I believe I have a pretty fair knowledge of the Gospels. And yes, I do try to read some every day.


Dennis said...

Well, I survived the football game and we won by 3 touchdowns. I'm developing some interesting colors at various points on my body already, however. carol, flag football is where you have a small 'flag' hanging off one hip; a 'tackle' is made by pulling the flag out. It's more difficult than touch football since you can't just touch the ball carrier anywhere. Well, you probably would...

cokato, have you read "Extreme Measures" by Flynn yet? If not, don't buy it - I just bought the hardback and I'll be glad to send it to you when I'm done, if you like.

c.c., it's not that everyone wants to be the underdog, it's that people like rooting for the 'little guy', or underdog.

Lois, "stroke the moose"?? -- is that like 'choke the chicken'?

Mr. Ed said...


Welcome to the 'shed brother!

C.C. Burnikel said...

Isn't it strange that most of the artists seem to have lived an immoral life? For inspiration? I often think of George Sand & Chopin when I see the word "immoral".

I received a very nice leather- binding Quest Study Bible from a friend last Christmas. I have not opened it yet.

I am glad your team won today. What's your record so far?

ski said...

cc, Ok I am coming out of the closet, similar in fashion to a SNL skit...I am Pat.

JK, I updated my profile so you should be able to see now, but it is good to know that I am not sexist.

carol said...

Geez, we have a hot moose and a choked we have enough room in this shed for a BBQ? Seems we have everything except a spanked monkey..but wait, what's in the corner over there! Ewe...

Dennis said...

c.c., 1-0; first game.

embien said...

@carl: Off the top of my head, I know of no station in the U.S. that is allowed to increase its power output at night.

Well, I know of one (at least it used to be). WHOT-1330 in Youngstown, OH where friend Jerry Starr was station manager. They ran 500 watts during the day and 1000 watts at night, from a 13-tower array, as I recall (not mentioned in the article I'm going to cite).

I believe this station may now be on 1390 kHz, but I haven't been in touch with Jerry for years, since my old radio club days.

You can read a bit about it here:

You can see a picture of Jerry Starr in an old advertising poster here:

Anonymous said...

C.C. Open it girl and read it. It could change your life. {for the better}

Chris in LA said...

Nobody wants to "be" an underdog, but lots of people root for the underdog as many feel like "they" are the underdog in life. Just my opinion, but I could be wrong.

Re: biblical knowledge - I thank the Notre Dame nuns & Jesuit priests who raised me through grade school, high school & college for all my obscure biblical knowledge, but am by no means an expert. I do pretty well at Trivial Pursuit also.

Martin said...

Embien, I had completely forgotten about ionosphere bounce.

Carl, do RF frequency burns happen to a lot of people or are you the source of the "myth" that radio towers are dangerous?


Mr. Ed said...


Let's see, at 1390, 500 watts probaby got them a 20 mile maximum radius on a real good day???? Going to 1KW probably increased that to 30 miles(at best) in a highly directional pattern???. Wow, 13 towers... that pattern must have looked like a daisy! That's probably why they could do it. I admit I was thinking more along the lines of the 50,000 Watt maximum in the U.S.

@martin The greatest danger from radio towers is falling off one. That's primarily why they're fenced. Normally,the only way to get an RF burn is when one section does not have a good electrical connection to its adjoining section. Once you are on the tower, you are electrically the same as the section you are on. For illustration purposes, you could compare it to being trapped in your car when a power line comes down on it. You're safe as long as you don't try to get out or touch something that is not at the same electrical potential.

Radio towers are not the only source of RF burns. Trust me! They are not a myth but I have no idea how many people have been burned from whatever source. Radio Frequency energy does not travel on the surface of your skin. It goes straight through leaving a very nasty puncture like burn. Getting burned from a tower at its base would depend on the overall condition of the tower & its ground plane. Knowing that fact, I would hesitate to walk up and grab one. My burns were vary minor and caused by a bad connection between sections.

With that, I'm outta here! I gotta get back in the woodshed.

Mr. Ed said...

Oops! Rotten spellchecker. Make that 'very' 'sted of 'vary'.

kazie said...

c.c., The thing is, moral standards are "in the eye of the beholder" and have changed radically throughout history. I'm not sure what they were doing in their time was worse than what any of us (my age) did in the 60's. Or for that matter the inhabitants of the woodshed today!

Anonymous said...

I spent much of my life actively involved in Protestant Christian churches and have read the Bible through several times and have read parts of it repeatedly. I also have taught it and have studied the original languages. As you know, I am 83 years old. Now I only look things up when I need to be sure I am getting them right.

embien said...

@carl: Let's see, at 1390, 500 watts probaby got them a 20 mile maximum radius on a real good day???? Going to 1KW probably increased that to 30 miles(at best) in a highly directional pattern???.

They were on 1330 in those days. I heard them once on a DX special (perhaps you know that stations could do "engineering tests" after midnight. Back in the '60's stations used to do "DX specials" where they would run full daytime power and pattern at like 3am eastern. Sometimes the "ham" oriented people at the station would send the station ID in morse code, which could cut through interference from other stations).
They'd do this on Monday mornings, this was back when stations actually signed off the air at midnight local time.

I was living in Eugene, Oregon and heard WHOT easily on their non-directional 500-watt day pattern (there is a station on 1330 in Portland, and I never would have heard them if I were living where I do now). When Jerry switched to "night" pattern, the bottom dropped out of their signal and I could no longer hear them, even though it was double the power (1000 watts).

Back then, broadcast band DXing was a popular hobby. I still have my old DX gear in the attic, Hammarlund HQ-140X receiver (highly modified) and a 4-foot loop antenna. I probably have 500 tapes of my DX "catches" over the years, but I haven't been active in the last 20 years. I heard all 50 states on broadcast band.

Argyle said...

Aiyee, the Hispanic equivalent of oy vay.

Mr. Ed said...

Again... you have done a wonderful job covering the ionospheric phenomenon. But, there is no way a station's basic GROUND signal coverage(without ionosphere) can cover the distance you cite. In actuality, that skip you were getting is a variable condition and often is subject to phasing and fade depending on the atmospherics. Just like bullets off a wall, AM signals can ricochet off the ionosphere and back to the surface but only at angles. This never happens for short distances because the ionosphere is approximately 150 miles up and relies on that angular hit to work its magic. With the right angle, AM signals can actually travel long distances within the ionosphere before being refracted back to ground. It all depends on angle of incidence, distance, and the reflective surface. I've participated with DXers by confirming their receptions but never chased the signals myself. I can cite one case however, where a 250 Watt station @ 1490(normal coverage 10-15 mile radius)here in the Northwest was picked up for nearly a week in England. Then, just as abruptly, the atmospherics changed and the signal disappeared. The rule? No! It was the exception. You lost the WHOT night signal because it no longer hit the ionosphere at the same angle to reach you. In pool, the carom shot simply hit the cushion at a different spot and speed and missed the pocket.

AM Radio Stations have a licensed coverage area as assigned by the FCC. That is their ground signal. Outside that basic area, there are large distances where their signal simply doesn't exist because it is directly limited by their allowed power. While I was never a DXer, my education and very early career was in Broadcast Engineering. I never had to worry about ionosphere... only ground signal... because that's all the FCC cared about. I usually worried more about neighbors listening to stations on their toasters... or crosstalk on their televisions... and yes it did happen a lot.

I respectfully agree with what you have cited about the long-distance reception but we're talking about two completely different aspects of radio wave propagation. And, my Oregonian friend, 1330 or 1390 wouldn't have made a nickle's worth of difference. If you had traveled to a spot 75 miles from their tower, you would not have been able to receive WHOT at any hour on the best day of the year directional or not.

@argyle - Aiyee...
Is that anything like Ai Chihuahua!?

@C.C. Sorry 'bout the length of this!

With that, have a good weekend all & I'm gone for the remainder.


Dennis said...

guys, just a suggestion - maybe these long technical discussions that really don't involve the rest of us would be better suited off-blog.
Just a thought...

Martin said...


Point taken. Here's a link to a discussion about the Mythbusters episode I refered to. What Carl was talking about in his last post was actually discussed on an old 60 Minutes episode: there were people in the Carribean who were able to get decent TV signals from the US, presumably because the signals had bounced off the ionosphere.


Argyle said...

@argyle - Aiyee...
Is that anything like Ai Chihuahua!?
Aye carumba, mais oiu!

C.C. Burnikel said...

Good point. Long comments always make me headache.