Oct 24, 2008

Friday October 24, 2008 Edgar Fontaine

Theme: "Marry" Has a Little Rhyme

18A: Hogwarts' student: HARRY POTTER

23A: Former Heavyweight Champion: LARRY HOLMES

38A: Director of "Rain Man": BARRY LEVINSON

51A: Phillie with eight gold gloves: GARRY MADDOX

58A: Hatchet-wielding temperance advocate: CARRY NATION

"Rain Man" is a great movie, but I've never paid attention to its director's name. I am not familiar with either LARRY HOLMES or GARRY MADDOX. The only Phillie I could think of is Mike Schmidt (also 11-letter).

Besides GARRY MADDOX, there are also CUB (58D: Chicago pro) and ABNER (54D: Doubleday of baseball) for a baseball undertone. Though it's been debunked, I still like the myth that Doubleday invented baseball.

I think our editor was watching ball games while editing this puzzle, so many flaws. Awful clue for HITHERTO (11D: Until now) due to UNTIL (63A: Up to). A clue for Clara BARTON (6D: Coen film, "__ Fink") would have avoided the COEN (27D: "Fargo" director) duplication. There should be a "briefly" hint for OTS (32A: Bonus periods).


1A: Maternal flower?: MUM. Well, only in the UK, isn't it? It's MOM here. "Silent flower?" is better.

4A: Travail: LABOR

9A: Cause for a blessing? ACHOO

17A: Sound intensity units: abbr.: DBS (Decibels). Stumper for me.

20A: Hardest to fathom?: DEEPEST. Can you think of a word/phrase to clue DEEPEST without using "-est" (or "most"/"least")?

22A: Hebrew letter: RESH. New to me. It's 20th letter of Hebrew alphabet. Notice nun, tet and shin? Great words to play around for those Xword constructors.

26A: Writer Umberto: ECO. Hee, I finally remember his name.

29A: Needle case: ETUI. Long time no see!

30A: Toshiba rival: NEC. NEC belongs to Sumitomo. One of the earliest foreign companies to enter China after our "Open Door" policy (1978). Coca - Cola was an early bird too.

31A: Rider's whip: CROP. New to me. I've never heard of riding CROP or leather tongue.

35A: Oscillates: VIBRATES. I always associate VIBRATES with a trembling motion rather than "swing back and force".

55A: Alaska's first governor: EGAN. Wikipedia says EGAN is "the only governor in the state's history to have actually been born in Alaska." Sarah Palin was born in Sandpoint, Idaho.

57A: Singer Flack: ROBERTA. I love her "Killing Me Softly With His Song".


1D: Be a busybody: MEDDLE

3D: Capital of Lesotho: MASERU. No idea. LESOTHO was clued as "Basutoland, today" on a TMS Sunday puzzle before. It's encircled by South Africa.

4D: Massachusetts medical clinic: LAHEY. Another unknown. Is it as famous as Mayo Clinic?

8D: Actor Alejandro: REY. I googled his name, then I realized that I had searched for him before. He is in Elvis's "Fun in Acapulco".

24D: Tool for evening: LEVELER. New word to me.

25D: DLII times II: MCIV. Roman 1104.

28D: Saturn's wife: OPS. Googled again. Her equivalent is Rhea in Greek mythology. Saturn (Cronus) ate all his children except Jupiter (Zeus). How cruel!

36D: Again, in music: BIS. I wonde what's the origin for BIS.

39D: Be ruled by: ANSWER TO

49D: Forces from: EXACTS. The clue should be "Forces (from)", don't you think so?



Martin said...

I'm half a world away and I hear C.C. screaming. 6d: "Coen film ____ Fink" 67d: COEN 11d: "until now" 63a: UNTIL. Why not simply "____ Fink" for 6d and "Director of 6d" for COEN? If "up to" means UNTIL why not "up to now" for HITHERTO?

I got everything by myself except the U in MASERU and ETUI: LAHEY, LEAR, LOIRE, RESH, NEC and EGAN all came from the perps, I originally wanted JOYLY for GAYLY, EVICTS for EXACTS and ALERT for AWARE.

This was very close to being a double themed puzzle: we had PRIOR TO, HITHERTO and ANSWER TO all as down clues, with the latter two arranged symmetrically. Similarly we had ONE STEP and INSTEP and TOILS and TOILE yesterday, EDEN and ADEN the day before and ETNA and EDNA a few weeks ago. These constructors really like putting rhymes and alliteration into their puzzles, don't they?

HARRY, LARRY, BARRY, GARRY and CARRY are all names, the last one being an alternative spelling for the name Carrie. I got to thinking about constructing a puzzle with *ERRY names. (I've provided more than five possibilities to make construction easier.)

JERRY SIENFELD (Comic about nothing)
JERRY SPRINGER (Tabloid talk show)
JERRY MAGUIRE (Tom Cruise role)
PERRY MASON (Raymond Burr role)
PERRY WHITE (Daily Planet Editor)
TERRY AUSTIN (X-Men inker)
BERRY CHILL (Yoghurt restaurant)
GERRY ANDERSON (Thunderbirds producer)


Dennis said...

Good morning, c.c. and gang - well, the hammer finally fell this week. Made it through this one without the G-spot, but I stopped looking at the time once I went past 10 minutes.

I always thought oscillate meant move back and forth - I guess technically that's a vibration if it's moving fast enough. Never heard of Maseru - I had the 'mu_' for 'maternal flower' and finally guessed at the last 'm'; short for chrysanthemum?

For drdad: Today is National Bologna Day - a great day for a game of Hide the Bologna.

Have a memorable weekend, and GO PHILS!

Martin said...

Heh. If mum means "mother" then what is The Mummy Returns? Is that the sequel to Kramer vs. Kramer?

I got OPS from the perps too.


C. C. said...

What great idea you have for COEN! Add JERRY Lewis & Gerry Ford. I guess Senator John KERRY does not fit the pattern. I don't understand your comment @ 5:53am. Thank you for the preposition + noun/gerund = adverbial phrases explanation yesterday. It cleared up huge patches of clouds for me.

Yes, MUM is for chrysanthemum. I thought "Maternal flower?" would be a great clue for solvers like Mark. What do you think of my "Silent flower?" clue? MUM: "Tight-lipped" & flower.

Did you make up Googleatorium? If so, why not Googlearium?

C. C. said...

Re: Post Duplication. I knew Buckeye explained "idiodacy" in his earlier post. I read it. But the reason I asked Carl about "idiodacy" again is that I did not quite follow Buckeye's rationale/train of thought in making up this word. Without Clear Ayes' 7:12pm explanation, I would still be confused.

Sorry I've misunderstood you so often. Thank you for the patience in explaining things to me. I feel that I am getting to know you better. Hopefully this problem will be gone soon.

KittyB said...

(Coming in outta da rain) Mornin, c.c. Mornin, all. (drying my glasses)

Jeeze....I've done puzzles I liked better. I managed to finish without Googling, only because I guessed. I had HOLMES in place, and I finally added R and Y to finish LARRY. At that point MASERU and LAHEY fell into place. Is LAHEY one of those regional clues that a Midwesterner might not know, or is it as famous as, say, Mayo Clinic? (As Barry might say.....meh.)

I also guessed on the O in Umberto's name, which gave me OPS for Saturn's wife. I wonder how many more times I'll have to see this clue before I remember it? It's a killer when two clues you don't know intersect.

I don't believe I have ever seen the word BIS used in music.

And with that, I need to get my day started. Have a good day, keep yer powder dry, and get out the waders.

drdad said...

Good morning all.

An eight minute puzzle.

I think of an evening tool as a level and one who uses it would be a leveler.

C.C. is being DF mentioning (leather) tongues followed by vibrations (trembling).

In the old west Carry was prominent for using her axe to destroy saloons. Some had signs that said "All Nations Welcome Here - Except Carry."

I was okay with Forces from for exacts (no parentheses).

I hated Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum."

C.C. pointed out the myth about Doubleday which is just that and only that - a myth.

OMG - the hammer fell for Dennis! My hero has fallen?! Finally, after all this time I finished faster then him on what I thought was an easy puzzle. I can die in peace now and be content. One of my great aspirations has come to pass!!!! I think instead of hiding bologna I will just go and eat a bologna sandwich in celebration.

Off to join a conference call in awhile. Have a great Friday.

KittyB said...

A note on BIS....

One of the guys (forgive me, I've forgotten who it was...dick, dennis, drdad...I'm not sure), recommended the Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary as his source for music definitions. I just visited that site to read up on BIS, and they have a very clear definition, should you be interested.

Barry said...

Morning, folks!

I dunno, there was just something I liked about this puzzle, although, like Martin, I just knew there were gonna be things that C. C. hated.... ^_^

The only unknowns for me today were MASERU, RESH and GARRY MADDOX. I sincerely doubt the LAHEY Clinic is as famous as the Mayo Clinic -- I'm actually from Massacuhsetts and had to think about it for awhile before remembering the name.

I have to admit I came to the blog today in fear and trepidation, worried that I'd have to say goodbye to you all. You see, I do the puzzle every morning over breakfast while reading the Boston Globe. It's part of my daily ritual, and I don't have time to do another puzzle in the morning in addition to the NYT puzzle which I do online.

Well, today the Boston Globe introduced it's new format, with large chunks of material (including the puzzle) being combined into a daily magazine simply called "g". Everything got a new look. Even the comics were in full color, which I've never seen in a weekday paper. But I digress...

Anyway, when I got to the puzzle, it didn't state who the editor was as it used to. And the constructor was unknown to me. But the real kicker was the fact that both LAHEY Clinic and Bobby ORR were in the puzzle, making me think that the Globe had chucked the regular Trib puzzle and decided to go with a local puzzle instead. Which would mean, of course, that I wouldn't be able to discuss it with you guys any more.

So, you can imagine my relief when I came here and saw the puzzle being discussed was the one I actually did....

And in other news, I believe BIS is simply Latin for "twice". And yes, I made up Googleatorium. It was a spur of the moment thing. I was thinking along the lines of vomitorium for some unknown reason. It was early, sorry.

Martin said...

I forgot about Kerry. We can try last names.

BRYAN FERRY (Roxy music singer)
DON CHERRY (NHL commentator)
JOHN [GEORGE] TERRY (Chelsea captain)
JOHN KERRY (2004 Democratic nominee)
HALLE BERRY (X-Men actress)


Martin said...

If Halle Berry is ever used in a crossword then a clever clue would be "Storm bringer". She played Storm in all three X-Men movies.


Chris in LA said...

Good morning CC etal,
Not too bad - most everything has already been mentioned. Tried to force "kin" instead of "son" & for some reason had "Bonn" instead of "Bern" which left me with "kontinel" instead of "sentinel" - fixed it after I googled for "bern", but it held me up for a few minutes.

CC: re - "deepest" - have recently lost an ex-ex father-in law and a friend's step-mom - how about cluing "in _ sympathy"?

TGIF all!

Martin said...

C.C., did you see Kramer vs. Kramer? In the end, the mother let the boy stay with his father because that's where he wanted to stay. So the sequel would have been The Mummy Returns. Get it? It's nothing dirty, I assure you. If I were going to say something dirty then I would have said [remainder of post censored by author].


RichShif said...

Hi C.C. and all

Off work today (slow), so I was able to work on c/w early. Brain death continues slightly today. Had Bonn instead of Bern for Swiss capital. Once I corrected that last two fills fell into place.

Clue for deepest w/o -est ending: Safari destination, "__________ Africa"

kazie said...

c.c., I was thinking more of the Margaret Houlihan duplications. I understand that sometimes you need to hear things a couple of different ways to understand completely, and it's good to keep at it until you do.

Bis is also French for twice.

Bonn was capital of West Germany during the division. Anyone ever read "a Small Town in Germany"? That was about Bonn--spy thriller, I think it was by John LeCarré. Good book about the early cold war.

Bern has a neat bear pit right in the city. I think it, like Berlin, gets its name from the number of bears in the area.

The only proper nouns I knew today were Bern, Harry Potter, Loire, Egan, Roberta and Ali. The rest I guessed from vaguely remembering the name existed or they fell in.

I was actually surprised to finish it with no blanks and no G's before coming here.

Argyle said...

Good Morning, C.C. and DF's,

I found today's puzzle rather flat; no "aha's", no "doh's", just ho-hum.

C.C., you did have me doubting my sanity but a lot of others have doubted my sanity, too. But I do like explaining things and realize that, often, what makes sense to me can be interpreted entirely differently by someone else.

Ken said...

Good morning, C.C. et al. I don't know why I didn't pick up on 4A and 20A. I had a couple blanks in both to confuse me. I got to that roadblock fairly quickly tho'.

Word of the day. Exoteric(adjective:
1: Suitable to be imparted to the public,
2: belonging to the outer or less initiated circle,
3: external

Technical writers are often at a loss to produce an exoteric summary of their documentation.

A great day to all.

Ken said...

Oops, I forgot the pronunciation.

Exoteric: ek suh TAIR ik

Mea culpa

DoesItinInk said...

I worked so late last night that I decided to eat breakfast at home and work the puzzle before driving the one hour to work. The puzzle came together very easily. HOWEVER I have a real issue with 51D and 58A. GAYLY is a variant of gaily and should have been noted as such. According to Wiki “The spelling of her first name is ambiguous and both Carrie and Carry are considered correct. Official records say Carrie which Nation used most of her life, but Carry was used by her father in the family Bible. “ BUT I have never seen it spelled as CARRY NATION prior to today. ‘Nuf said!

On a more humorous note, according to Wiki, Carrie Nation’s mother suffered from mental illness, going through periods when she had delusions of being Queen Victoria. Here is a photo of Carrie looking herself not unlike the queen carrying an hatchet!

I am sooooo glad today is Friday!

Bill said...

This, about NEC. It is an acronym and therefore should have "briefly"
or "for short" behind the clue.
The company was formerly known as Nippon Electric Company, Limited, before it was renamed in 1983. It still goes by the full name in Japan.
Nippon Denki Kabushiki Gaisha.
In the USA the name changed from NEC, Ltd to NEC Corp.
Maybe I’m too old school, but when there is a name like this and I remember where it came from I refuse to believe it should be pronounced “neck”. It is N.E.C.Corp.
There, I,m done with that rant!
Not a bad xword, just time consuming. Had no idea about ECO or OPS. Again, refused to put the “C” in COEN ‘cause I was sure the clue for one would NOT be repeated as a fill (again)! Guess I blew that, huh?
LARRYHOLMES was a long time coming. I wanted LARRYSPINKS and I knew that wasn’t right but finally remembered HOLMES when 5d and 6d came to light.
Aand, yes “a tool for evening” indeed a level as Dennis has said>
This Fontaine guy must be older than us.Some of his clues and fills sound like really old usage.
CY’all later.

Bill said...

And, if you are leveling concrete that tool is a "screed".

KittyB said...

doesitinink, I had the same reaction to the CARRY/CARRIE point. I was so sure the puzzle was wrong that I Googled as I started to write my first comment, for support on the issue. What parent names their child CARRY???

This is another case of an obscure variant. I know use of obscure words is allowed, but that doesn't have to mean I like it!

DoesItinInk said...

@kitty b: What parent names their child CARRY???

Perhaps someone who thought herself to be Queen Victoria? LOL

Bill said...

Upon beginning her campaign against liquor in the early 20th century, she adopted the name "Carry A. Nation" mainly for its value as a slogan, and had it registered as a trademark in the state of Kansas.
A history lesson for most of us, I'd guess.

Buckeye said...

Carl and all who care: Check my late night posting last night. As I said then, I must go online for the puzzle. This is explained on said posting.

I must be off!!

g8rmomx2 said...

Hi c.c. and all:

Well, after Harry Potter and Larry Holmes I just put in "arry" in all the other clues and worked around those letters. I was familiar with all the names so no googling. I did, however, only get Lahey, Eco and Maseru from the perps.

Tell me your _ thoughts (deepest)

DoesItinInk said...

@bill: That is a very interesting bit of information. Thanks!

Clear Ayes said...

Good Morning All, Like G8rmomx2, after HARRY and LARRY, I went ahead and filled in the rest of the ARRY's, although the spelling of CARRY was new to me. It certainly helped because there were more than a few words I didn't know. MASERU, LAHEY, RESH, OPS were unknowns and LEVELER gave me fits. I couldn't get out of the mind set of "evening" as "later in the day" and GAYLY wasn't spelled the way I learned it. I finally struggled through with the help of the surrounds.

C.C. Glad I could help you with Buckeye and Carl's back and forth.

Buckeye and Carl...Smile!

I'm heading for Yosemite Park this morning with a group of girlfriends. We should get some lovely views of autumn foliage and mountains' majesty, as well as a nice lunch and a glass of wine (I'm not driving) at the beautiful Awanhi Hotel. Yosemite reminds me of this poem.

There Is A Pleasure In The Pathless Woods

There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more,
From these our interviews, in which I steal
From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne'er express, yet cannot all conceal.

- Lord Byron, (George Gordon)

Buckeye said...

Berry; NEVER say your sorry for creating a new word. Check with Fred. It may be in there.

I must be off.

Carl said...

G'mornin' C.C. & all

C.C., I agree with your analysis of this xword being so full of flaws. MY eyes rolled back inside my head with 6D & 27D. This one took a litle longer than normal but, thanks to perps, I reached a blackout after only two cups of Joe.

@C.C. Sorry if my explanation fell short. Insanity is diffucult to explain unless you're actually there.

@buckeye - Went there! Read it! Read next line please.

@clearayes - smile??? I'm LMFAO!

@sirens - 20A?? 35A???? 66A??? Come on! Jump on it! Ya know ya wanna. And... I won't even mention the 35A-31D crossing!!!

I best be outta here before I end up in the woodshed again.


Bill said...

Lest you think I'm some kind of a whiz for knowing that, you must be informed that I did a copy and paste from the Wiki site. (snicker)
I was surprised at how far ranging her influence was.

carol said...

Hi everyone, nothing much to add here but I was thinking (as Clear ayes said) that 24D had to do with time of day. I certainly had a different "tool" in mind!:)
Something that could "vibrate" the "deepest", "inner" parts.
Hi Carl, my you are correct, it IS dark in this woodshed.

Carl said...

Oh hi Carol... couldn't tell who was here with me in the dark.

Maybe there's a hidden theme????
If you take the string a little farther we come up with a cryptogram??? 66A, 24D, 35A, 48D, 20A, 67A???

Man... I'll never get outta here now! (not that it isn't fun being in here)

cokato said...

Carl, I hope it didn't oscillate in your booty. Make room!

carol said...

Hi Cokato, that is you in here isn't it?
Wait let me feel around a little, and I'll know for sure if it's you or Carl! Oopps, guess we'll be spending the Holidays together now.

Carl, is the possible cryptogram from the clues, or the answers?

embien said...

10:57 today. After yesterday's distinctly unenjoyable puzzle, today's was at least a bit of fun, if flawed.

I was all set to rant about CARRY NATION instead of "Carrie", but thanks to @bill, I saved myself the embarassment.

I hate crossings like the ECO/OPS one, in which two semi-obscure names cross. "Rhea" I know, OPS, not so much, and I assume there are a lot of writers named "Umberto".

I, too, had never heard of LAHEY before. I assume that's a regional thing, and if Boston-resident @barry had to work to get it, what chance do I, as an Oregon resident, have?

C. C. said...

Where exactly is "Deepest Africa"?

I have no problem with NEC. Everybody calls it NEC, including Japanese themselves. Who is LARRY SPINKS?

Who is Fred?

C. C. said...

Argyle et al,
I solved the Newsday puzzle with the below theme answers today:

Sissy Spacek
Kevin Spacey
Grace Kelly
Horace Mann

The theme title is "Card Sharks?"


cokato said...

Carl, could you flick your bic so we can get a little light in here? Carol was getting a little too familiar.

Carl said...

Sorry guys... this is a repost of my 3:33pm. There was a prob with the link.

@carol... definitely the answers. And, btw, thanks for the grope... or was that cokato. Ah.. the mistique of Ménage à trois.

For all... Ms. Nation used both spellings for her name. If you click on the + at the bottom, you can blow this up to really larger than life size(hope it works this time). I offer you Scary Carrie. I have a feeling she really didn't need the axe... the kegs would probably explode at just the sight of her.

Bill said...

Card Sharks - They all have an ACE in the middle.
There is no Larry Spinks. I was confusing LEON Spinks (another boxer). Hey, they both start with "L" !!

Bill said...

But, how is NEC said? Nek (as a word) or N.E.C. ?

Carl said...

I had a friend who worked for N.E.C. here at the Beaverton, 'O' plant. He always referred to it as N-E-C (as in) the same as I-B-M.
The only time he used neck(interchanged equally with another anatomical spot) was in referring to his limited-english speaking bosses. I hope this helps.


C. C. said...

Goodness gracious! I spent a long time today trying to figure out the "Card Shark". NEC is pronounced as N. E. C.

See the cards and pretty girls in the NEC commercial?

Dennis said...

Bill, I agree -- we dealt with N.E.C. quite a bit back in my corporate days, and I never heard anyone call it 'nec' - always N.E.C.

c.c., great link - some of the other early-70s Japanese commercials on there are pretty funny.

carol said...

Carl, are you sure that was your Bic you flicked?

C. C. said...

Forget about my 3:24pm "Who is Fred?" comment. Now I realized you made up the "Fred Dictionary". I am feeling increasingly frustrated and stupid!

lois said...

Good evening CC & DF's:
Kittyb; I've never heard of 'Bis' either. Thank you and 'one of the 3D's' for that awesome VT music dictionary site...esp since we are Hokies.

I like Chris's suggestion for 'deepest'. I'm sorry for all the losses, Chris.

Carl: Loved your DF take on the puzzle. I'm just 'awash' w/excitement! Rates a 'ten' in my book. Say, maybe for my nun outfit, you can ask your engineers to devise a lightning rod that oscillates ...rapidly. Lordy,I'm going to 'Bern'! 'Orr' I can just use my 'crop' and get a whole new perspective on 'upbeat'. 'Aloes' might come in handy with the ache that'll be on my booty then. Ok, I'm going to the woodshed too.
Back 'a-choo', Carol, Cokato, Carl. It's getting hotter in here by the second. Oh wow!

carol said...

Oh boy, I think we will need a "sentinel" on the door to the woodshed! Don't want anyone "meddling" while we are havin' one kind of party in there!!!
We won't have to "answer to" "mum" either!

cokato said...

where in the heck is Whoo and xchefwalt when you knead them? Dennis, Carol, Carl, Lois, we need an extension built on this thing and FOOD. Maybe we should all take off for xchef's B&B; I've been there and it's a lot been a lot more pleasant experience. Carl, you burned me with your bic. Watch where you are aiming that thing!!

Carl said...

He's baaaack!

Hi Lois - Welcome to the 'shed. Had to go out an git-a-bic for cocato 'n carol. Three convenience stores and a buck twenty-nine later I located a Scripto 'moose'... it'll have to do! Oops, sorry cocato, the 'moose' got loose. btw carol 'mum' knows everythin' and 'priorto' (not to mention 'hitherto') now, I haven't had much time out of the 'shed. Anybody 'aware' of an 'ache' or itch that needs 'aloes' & a 'labor' saving evening 'leveler' tool that 'vibrates'? Hmmmmmm.....

Gettin' the munchies are we???


Carl said...

Oh, and by the way Lois.... (whisper) I've got the Energizer Bunny lined up for your 'rod'. You know how those bunnies are... and with lithium.... they keep goin', and goin', and goin'......

Dennis said...

carol, i'll take care of the sentinel part -- is there a password?

cokato said...

Dennis, I am in the woodshed too. Password...CUM IN. Not necessarily in that order. Just ask Carl. Where is Drdad when we are throwing these late night parties? guess I'll just wait and see where the balogne lands tonight. I might have a way to stash it. I am also very HUNGRY Carol and Carl have been here almost all day. Where is our Xchefwalt?? Dennis, WELCOME INNNNNNNN

cokato said...

Because there are so few posts tonight, I will correct my Bacardi typing and call it bolagna.

lois said...

Carl, you're the man! I'll enjoy that energized rod! I'll put it to the test all right and let you know. Thank you! Now about that evening 'leveler' tool. And that scripto 'moose' lighter? Gives a whole new meaning to a 'moose in heat'. Say, where is Dick? He should be in here somewhere. Dennis, you'll be a wonderful sentinel because you stand so erect and always ready, but I think we'd enjoy you more if you were in here with us, esp. with your morel qualities. Party on!