Dec 13, 2013

Friday, December 13, 2013, Michael Wiesenberg and David Steinberg

Theme: Down is up, lets spawn.

Another visual challenge saved for our Friday delight, and a collaboration between wunderkind David Steinberg, and the very interesting Michael Wiesenberg. Well we have 2 mountains to climb (right Spitzboov), as there are five (5) types of Salmon  (72 across, which I think should refer to both 3 and 41 down) which are presented in the down clues, reading from bottom to top with the reveal the unique pattern of these fish to go against the current to return to where they began to continue the cycle of LIFE. Other than the trickery, this did not feel like a Friday, lots of words, many 3 and 4 letter ones, with some interesting 7s, like CARRERE, CHORIZO, CRIPPLE, INDIANA,  SEE ALSO and TOWERED. I know the Corner has had an intense and very negative response to the use of trickeration in fill, so I am curious how you all react to this one. Let us see where this duo led us.

72A. Creature known for 3-Down : SALMON. (6)The other pink meat. Read all about them. LINK.

3D. With 41-Down, 72-Across phenomenon that's graphically demonstrated five times in this puzzle : SWIMMING.(8) 41D. See 3-Down : UPSTREAM. (8)  SWIMMING UPSTREAM.

9D. Type of 72-Across : EYEKCOS. (7) SOCKEYE. The red salmon of the Pacific Northwest.

18D. Type of 72-Across : OHOC. (4) COHO. Very popular type which is found all over the US and in all of the Great Lakes including Michigan. Silver salmon.

21D. Type of 72-Across : DAEHLEETS. (9) STEELHEAD.  Steelhead salmon are ocean going while steelhead trout are freshwater fish.

45D. Type of 72-Across : KOONIHC. (7) CHINOOK. The King salmon, they are the largest of the Pacific salmon growing up to 100 pounds.

47d. Type of 72-Across : MUHC. (4) CHUM. The dog salmon from the teeth it has during spawning which resemble canines.

whew, that is lot of theme stuff...

1. 1994 movie based on an androgynous "SNL" character : IT'S PAT. Not one of my favorite TRAILER. (1:31).

7. 2013 Culinary Hall of Fame inductee : EMERIL. Yes, I am sure we all sat waiting for this event. Who knew it even existed. LINK.

13. Dwarfed, with "above" : TOWERED. When I was 6 and about 3 feet tall, I went with my father to pick up my mother from her job as a nurse at the hospital, and we ran into an intern who was  6'8" dressed in scrubs. I thought the Jolly Green Giant had come to life.

15. Nonspecific journal opening : DAY ONE.

16. Severely damage : CRIPPLE.

17. Cross-referencing phrase : SEE ALSO. In writing brief and memoranda of law, we use many of these types of references, See e.g., see supra....

19. Tailors' work : HEMS. Trying to work a HAW reference in here somehow.

20. Work with freight : LADE.

22. Kosher deli snack : KNISH. I must dispute this clue, as a pastry filled with meat, or potato or vegetable is a side dish, not a snack.

23. Wet tract : MIRE. We have been swamped with this fill lately. Don't let it bog you down.

25. Smart guy? : ALEC.  Guiness?

27. Prefix with con : NEO.

28. Old ring leader? : ALI. Cute clue for Muhammed.

30. Language that gave us "galore" : ERSE. All perps.

32. Course-prep course : HOME-EC. Nice use of the different meanings of 'course'.

34. Computer operating system with a penguin mascot : LINUX. Surprisingly, the first appearance in an LAT.

36. Name : CHOOSE. Tricky cluing, which is accurate but hardly my first thought.

38. Hanging aids : PEGS.

39. '80s-'90s legal drama : LA LAW.
40. Zap : NUKE.

44. Ice Capades performer : SKATER. Hey CA, wherever you are....

46. One who has class? : PUPIL. Obviously they are students of the pun.

47. Bone tissue : MARROW.

50. Right on el mapa : ESTE. Spanish for east.  el mapa?

52. Friend of Frodo : SAM. Wonderfully portrayed by Sean Astin, Gomez Addams' son.

53. Diminutive suffix : ULE. Like CapsULE. For once not ULEE,

54. Taking care of business : ON IT.

56. Part of Q.E.F. : ERAT. Same middle word, Quod Erat Faciendum.

58. Board : HOP ON. Woo, woo!

60. Common auto engine : V-SIX.

62. Hyde Park vehicle : PRAM.  What a Nanny drives.

65. Tapas bar sausage : CHORIZO. Want to TRY?

67. Tia who voiced Nani in "Lilo & Stitch" : CARRERE. Didn't we just see beautiful Tia, the Wayne's World babe?

69. Quiver carrier : ARCHER.

70. State on Lake Michigan : INDIANA. Plus Illinois, Wisconsin and of course Michigan.

71. __ Sutton, Bond girl in "A View to a Kill" : STACEY. Played by TANYA ROBERTS, (2:19) who also was one of Charlie's Angels briefly and played Sheena, the female Tarzan.


1. Hankering : ITCH. Not scratch but yearn.

2. Ran like the dickens : TORE.

4. Mountain Dew bottler, informally : PEPSI. originally Brad's Drink.

5. Dada pioneer : ARP.

6. Note handler : TELLER. At the bank handling all of those federal reserve notes.

7. 1958 Pacer, e.g. : EDSEL. No idea what the clue means but it filled in quickly.

8. Ginnie __ : MAE. The articulation of GNMA, Government National Mortgage Association established in 1968 to provide a way for banks to sell their loans and then use the money to make new loans, etc. etc to fuel home financing and sale.

10. Reddish mount : ROAN.

11. Queued up : INLINE.

12. One paying a flat fee : LESSEE. The old FLAT =Apartment misdirection.

14. Narc's agcy. : DEA. Drug Enforcement Administration.

24. Morgan of comics : REX. The venerable strip featuring Rex Morgan MD.

26. Self-help website : eHOW.  Never heard of IT.

28. Sight from the Brenner Pass : ALP. Hi Warti.

29. Excuse, sometimes : LIE. The dog ate it.

31. Skedaddle : SCAT.

33. List of options : MENU.

35. BOAC destination in a Beatles hit : USSR.

37. Some crew members : OARS. The ones who do all the work in CREW, the sport.

39. Aeration target : LAWN. HG, don't you hate it when the aerate the greens?

42. Optima or Soul : KIA.

43. Common street name : ELM. Tough to pin down, a slippery clue.

46. __ diem : PER.

48. Island farewells : ALOHAS. Hello Hawaii.

49. News show staple : REPORT.

51. Natives of Paris and Odessa : TEXANS. Yes, we in America have borrowed my many European city names. Paris is one of the most common appearing in 26 states.

55. "It floats" soap : IVORY. When I was little and being bathed, the floating soap was a thing of awe.

57. National Poetry Month : APRIL. Owen, did we know this?

59. Seal hunter : ORCA.

61. "Vous ĂȘtes __": Paris map words : ICI. "You are here" en francais. No clecho for me.

63. Italian river : ARNO.

64. Bell curve center : MEAN. Like her friends MEDIAN and MODE. I figure it is feminine since it has curves.

66. Zombie leader? : ZEE. The first letter.

68. Old vitamin bottle no. : RDA. Recommended Daily Allowance.

Well I think you all have reached your RLW, reasonable lemonade write up, so I will head back to the world and wish you all a very happy and safe Friday the 13th. (Yes my name is Jason and the movies are so 'special' to me). Thanks David and Michael and all of you.


Notes from C.C.: 

As we all learned from yesterday's puzzle that crossword will celebrate its 100th anniversary on Dec 21, 2013, I'd like to mention a book I just read: The Centenary of the Crossword by John Halpern, known as "Paul" from The Guardian.

Who knew prisoners in Sing Sing were provided with crosswords in the 1920s? Fascinating snippets of crossword history. I also enjoyed reading the section on crossword setters/constructors and editors, esp LA Times Daily Crossword editor Rich Norris who does not give interviews often. I actually pulled out the Dan Naddor "Word Chain" blog post while reading Rich's words. I've never solved a cryptic puzzle, so I found the "How to Solve Cryptic Crosswords" chapter very informative and educating. 

You'll also find in the book Marti's 5 favorite clues. Also two from today's co-constructor David Steinberg. Please click here  for more information. Great read!


OwenKL said...

To where females dig nests and lay roe.
Then the males spread their seed
(Of sweet sex there's no need).
Once they're drained, to fish heaven they go.

They're delicious, but nearly fished out.
Mankind upsets nature, no doubt.
But close cousin STEELHEAD's a trout!

OwenKL said...

(DNF today with a Natik at 61D/67A IcI/cARRERE, and a few educated WAGs. Today's puzzle is a counterpoint to the FALLING DOWN puzzle Tuesday.
68D "old vitamin bottle no." I first put ONE[-a-day]. The one-a-day for everyone that my mother gave me is no more, it seems. They're still around, but now it's one-a-day-for-men, one-a-day-for-women, one-a-day-for-fogies, one-a-day-for-coots-going-blind, et alia.)

Lemon: Yes, I knew there was a Poetry Month. Wouldn't have remembered which one it was, but there aren't that many 5-letter months.
I read the Wikipedia article in prep for my poem today, and that source says
"Other fish in the same family are called trout. The difference between salmon and trout is sometimes said to be that salmon migrate and trout are resident, and that salmon spawn once and trout spawn many times, though these distinctions are not always strictly true."
"The steelhead anadromous form of the rainbow trout migrates to sea, but it is not termed "salmon"."

Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

No joy for me in this one, I'm afraid. I hate cross-references to begin with, so this one was unpleasant to begin with. I did finally get the theme somehow, but even then I nearly gave up because I simply don't know that many types of salmon, sorry. CHUM and CHINOOK were especially hard. I did guess CHINOOK finally, but only because I know it as both a type of helicopter and a Native American tribe.

Masterful construction, witty clues, but just not my cuppa tea in the end (or the beginning, for that matter).


unclefred said...

Lemonade, you wondered what the response would be to this puzzle. I can tell you that personally I hated it. I don't like puzzles with cross references to begin with, as too many clues are no clues at all, but refer to other clues, which often are not clues either. Then when you add upside down, anagrammed, jumbled or other trickery, it puts the puzzle totally out of reach, at least for me. Today, after an hour or so I gave up, read the blog, and actually got angry enough at the upside down answers to go to my home office and write to the blog. I admit the puzzle was very clever. Just, for me, at least, totally unsolvable. BTW, I read the blog every single morning. Thanks to all of you for your efforts.

Dudley said...

Hello Puzzlers -

This time I chose to figure out the cross-reference clues early; having done that, the theme trick wasn't hard to guess. Never heard of chum as a type of salmon, but the rest were familiar. Certainly didn't know there was a hall of fame for chefs, but Emeril seems a likely candidate.

Thanks for elucidating, Lemon. As for the website eHow, I've looked at a few examples of the DIY advice there, and come away very suspicious of the reliability thereof.

Morning, C.C., thanks for the heads-up about the crossword anniversary book!

Cheers All

Dudley said...

Barry - I forgot to mention your new avatar. What a handsome cat!

Hahtoolah said...

Good Morning, Lemonade and friends. This was a tough puzzle no the first and second pass. Then I got UPSTREAM. Then, I looked at OHOC, which initially make no sense, and I realized that I was really looking at COHO. That helped me decipher the rest of the puzzle. I really enjoyed that AHA moment.

I wasn't fooled by Paris and Odessa = TEXANS. Anyone else remember the film Paris, Texas?

QOD: Experience is a good school, but the fees are high. ~ Heinrich Heine (Dec. 13, 1797 ~ Feb. 17, 1856)


buckeye bob said...

Good morning!

7D - my interpretation of the clue:

The Pacer is considered an automotive flop. The Edsel is the 1958 version of an automotive flop.

Lemonade714 said...

Unclefred sorry you did not enjoy but I am glad it inspired you to post. Feel free to say nice things about one's you like

Al Cyone said...

Well, it was looking pretty ugly until I got UPSTREAM, then SWIMMING, then SALMON. So what was shaping up to be a disappointing Friday DNF turned out to be fun. CHUM was the last fish to flip. Or flop.

And I still don't like multi-short-word answers such as HOMEEC. Eek!


Anonymous said...

You're overthinking the clue: The Pacer was a model within the Edsel line.

HeartRx said...

Good morning all!

WDS (What Dudley said), and then top it off with WHS (What Hahtoolah said.)

Lemony, I felt right at home as Warti today!

I did enjoy this one, once I got the theme. CHUM, to me is what fishermen drop overboard to attract sharks or other big fish. I never knew there was a salmon by that name, so a true learning moment for me. Thanks Michael and David!

We are girding for a big storm this weekend. Time to fire up the snowblower, I think! (TGIF)

buckeye bob said...

@ Anon 7:15 a.m.

You are so right! A learning moment for me. I never heard of the Edsel Pacer until now. Thanks!

Going away red-faced now...

Mari said...

Wow! This was a total bomb for me! DNF! I got SWIMMING UPSTREAM, and SALMON, but I'm not familiar with different types of salmon. I tried Googling a few, but didn't catch the "up stream" clues. This one was way out of my league!

Some clues I enjoyed included:
28A: Old Ring Leader: ALI
46A: One Who Has Class? PUPIL
12D: One Paying a Flat Fee: LESSOR
66D: Zombie Leader: ZEE

I wish you all a wonderful weekend!

Yellowrocks said...

I liked this theme, perhaps because I had a great start in the SE. Some of solving is pure luck. SALMON was all peprs and was key to everything else. UPSTREAM was also mostly perps.
I found most of the other fill easily. OHOC from perps cried out for COHO as a type of salmon and from there I quickly found all the salmon types swimming upstream.
I had STEELHEAD without stopping to think that it usually refers to trout. I learned, thanks to Owen. that it is in the salmon family.,so no nit for me.
Nerts, DNF after all, because i didn't go back and fill in the X for LINUX crossing REX.
Still a lot of fun, much more than a 4 minute solve with nothing to "puzzle" over.

thehondohurricane said...

Howdy all,

Son of a gun.... never knew Edsel had a Pacer model. As a matter of fact, never knew there were different models. Thought there was only one Edsel model.

A learning day I guess, because there were a lot of answers I couldn't suss from todays forgettable attempt at solving. No question. a solid DNF.

Ended up with about 75% filled in. of which roughly 70% was correct.

Oh well, I'm not ashamed to admit it when I get "creamed".

Have a good weekend and those of you in my neck ofd the woods, get your snow removal equipment ready. Your going to need it.

Montana said...

I am afraid I am going against the 'stream' since I like this puzzle. BUT it was because it is a Friday puzzle and I solved it.
About 80% of the way through, I was ready to give up on the weird answers that were perping up, like EYEKCOS, DAEHLEETS and MUHC, but I knew had to be correct.
I had SWIMMING, UPSTREAM, and SALMON but my brain wasn't connecting the dots. (I was doing the puzzle after midnight.)
Then I put in OHOC, and I 'saw' COHO. Aha! I looked at all the other types of 72-across and it all fell together. Wow!

CT son had to work in Denver area the last couple days. Since his family is already in Australia for the holidays, he rented a condo at Vail, CO, for a 3-day weekend with our family.
Denver son and DIL got Friday off from work, so we are headed to the mountains for a few days. Should be fun. I have never been into the CO mountains.

Have a good weekend. I am off on a mini-vacation,


Montana said...

Abejo, thanks for the advice to use my iPod to 'see' the puzzle while I use my iPad to write on the blog.
It works!


TTP said...

Good morning all ! Thank you David, Michael and Lemonade.

Immediately thought of Barry and his oft-stated distaste for cross referencing clues. Then I started seeing how many there were and thought I might come to dislike them as well. I've never seen a puzzle with this many cross references. But, after solving it, I thought, "That was so much fun after all !"

Almost turned on red letters. Almost like Al, I filled UPSTREAM, then SALMON and then SWIMMING. But I was still lost on every type of SALMON. Didn't have a single one filled. And the letter sequences were driving me nuts. OHO-, EYEKC--, KOONIH-, M-HC, and DAE--EETS ? Then I guessed the C in STACEY and saw the gambit. Filled in the missing letters and it was a sprint to completion and the TADA. So glad I did not turn on the red letters or look anything up.

I like most CHORIZO. We go out for breakfast from time to time, and always to the Savoury restaurant. Yes, it is spelled that way. It is near Abejo. I'll order the CHORIZO skillet about every third or fourth visit. Alternate with the Meat Lovers skillet, New York strip steak and eggs over easy, pork chops or ham. DW orders the exact same thing every time (Veggie omelet, extra crispy on the hash browns, eggs over hard, wheat toast) but still has to look peruse the menu as if looking for changes that might have occurred since our previous visit. I wonder if I have any odd little habits or tendencies that endear me to her. Naw, I think mine annoy her.

See you all later.

Spitzboov said...

Good morning everyone. Thanks for the intro, Lemonade.

Not joining the KNISH kerfuffle today. Initially felt the cw was daunting but as I got into it I saw many clever clues. The trick became not to over think it and go with the flow. Hadn't heard of a Koonih_ SALMON, but remembered the 'UPSTREAM' admonition and saw CHINOOK going upwards at 45d. VoilĂ , I got the next 3 salmons easily and let the perps fill in CHUM.
I think David and Michael constructed a masterpiece. I liked the clever cluing for TEXANS, TELLER, ORCA and many others.
Didn't know GALORE came from the Irish. A new learning.
BZ for a very enjoyable solve.

"Eschew obfuscation"

Have a great day.

BarbieMom said...

I enjoyed the puzzle once I figured out the theme. I had salmon and upstream. I kept looking at 9 down and thinking, "I know sockeye is a type of salmon." Then it hit me and I finished up. I am old fashioned and use a newspaper and mechanical pencil. One day I will try the computer and red letters.

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

I finished about 95% of the puzzle. I never caught on to spelling words backwards because I never completed one of them. That's a tough theme. C'mon, be reasonable!

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

And to be clear, yes, it is Go-Rilla, spelled G-O-Rilla as made clear by Flip Wilson in this clip

GarlicGal said... two whippersnappers, you got me! I just didn't see the down-to-up answers. Whew!

BarbieMom, me, too. Newspaper and mechanical pencil. (But I do the NYT puzzles online.)

#1 Daughter is flying in from Detroit today. I know she will enjoy our expected 65 to 70 degree weather! Sorry for all you snow bound folks.

Happy Friday Puzzlers.

JJM said...

i finished but a little too tricked out for me.

CanadianEh! said...

Wow, this one was tricky. But when I finally had the AHA moment and realized the salmon names were SWIMMING UPSTREAM, the blanks filled in nicely.

Just a few unknowns - not familiar with the Texas towns of Paris and Tehran, or EMERIL Lagasse.

Wanted MODEL for EDSEL and TRAM for PRAM until perps corrected things.

I did remember the Brenner Pass from Austria/Switzerland tour. Any ALP is beautiful but
Matterhorn is my favourite.

Clever misdirection with HOMEEC but CHOOSE=NAME was Meh for me.

This Canadian had heard of Fanny Mae but not Ginnie MAE, and of course I remembered ZEE nor ZED. That answer is becoming very common.

CrossEyedDave said...

I also am not a ichthyologist or a murderer!

Busy, busy Friday forced me to rush straight to red letters, which conveniently made it too easy to cheat my way upstream.

Having finished I looked at the theme for the Friday trickery, & finally decided there was none. Other than 5 fish names, nothing seemed fishy other than the fact that I know nothing about the names of Salmon, & took the weird spelling as fact.

Imagine my surprise upon reading Lemons write up, that I had the whole thing backwards...

VirginiaSycamore said...

I got Salmon fairly quickly because I gave up on the top and started at the SE corner. I knew TEXAN, RDA and MEAN and guessed APRIL for poetry since it is more romantic than March.

It took a while to get UPSTREAM. Then I forgot that there was supposed to be a gimmick and kept fuming because none of the Salmon answers were sussing out from perps.

Finally, I saw STEEL and realized, DUH, that I had to go up on the names. I got almost all except SEEALSO and LEASEE, I used LEASER, which didn't make sense.

I'm so glad I can come here and have people like Lemonade explain it all. Now I can be at ease for the rest of my day.

Did anyone else think that ALI meant Ali Baba and the 40 thieves?

Bill G. said...

Hi everybody. I finished this late last night and had a lot of trouble until I finally figured out the theme. Then it was clear sailing. I think I would have been frustrated if I hadn't been able to finish. Even though I didn't need them this time, that's why I much prefer red letters to just giving up with a DNF.

Rats! When I went to Preview, my whole post disappeared. I usually save everything first but when I didn't think of it, the blog goblin bit me.

I guess a small knish could be a snack. I've only had them a few times and most of them were pretty filling.

My father and I used to do archery together. It was a nice activity for us to share.

Roy Lowenthal said...

Knishes are sometimes eaten out of hand as a snack - it's a fairly common thing in NYC.


Lemonade714 said...

In that regard any food can be a snack if you just have a little. I have not spent much time in NYC in years, so I defer to your knowledge.

Thanks for the info on the Edsel Pacer.

Here is MGR's LINK.

If you catch fish to study them and dissect them are you both?

Tinbeni said...

My head hurts from the V-8 can smacks!!!

This was a total slog of a solve ... but very satisfying once I finished.

Like VirginiaSycamore I solved from the SE corner, UP.
SALMON, SWIMMING UPSTREAM got me the gimmick.

BarbieMom, I always solve on newsprint in black ink ... never on a computer.
Today, as I finished my mug-of-coffee, I switched over to my Red-Ink-Pen ... and those red-letters are "no help-at-all" ...

When the only thing to drink is PEPSI ... I can't really say I had FUN along the way.

Well the Sun is over the yardarm.

Anonymous said...

maybe nitpicking but todays author used steelhead trout as a salmon (never was and never will be a salmon species)and could have used chum salmon as the 5th pacific salmon and/or the atlantic salmon as the sixth salmon.

Misty said...

A real toughie, and no, I didn't finish although I got pretty much everything but the Types of Salmon. I did get SALMON SWIMMING UPSTREAM pretty early, but until Lemonade's expo, didn't realize I had to spell the types out from the bottom up. Doh! A relief, though, since I was sure I knew a few salmon varieties and couldn't figure out why they didn't shake down in the answers.

The theme still brought back a happy memory though. Many years ago I went on a vacation to upper Michigan with an old boyfriend, and he took me to a restaurant whose window overlooked a stream. I couldn't believe it, but there were SALMON trying to SWIM UPSTREAM although many of them didn't seem to make it. I've had a weird empathy and sorrow for the little critters ever since.

Unclefred, nice to see you check in.

C.C., thanks for alerting us to the Crossword Centenary book.

Darn, my blue name disappeared again. Will have to try to remember C.C.'s instructions on how to retrieve it.

Have a great Friday, everybody!

Irish Miss said...

I have tried to post 8 times and I keep getting Error 404 Cannot Be Found. Now, my entire post disappeared! I'll start over and hope for the best.

I said that I, like others, do not like cross-referencing puzzles; they make me dizzy. I did finish w/o help, but also w/o much fun.

Hats off to Michael and David for their craftsmanship and cleverness. And thanks, Lemony, for a job well done.

CED - Loved the late night links; only you could find such gems.

Lucina, what are the basic ingredients in tamales in addition to pork? I have never had one.

Have a great day and stay safe. Our forecast is for 4-8" of snow Saturday afternoon into Sunday morning. In fact, it's snowing right now but I don't know if it's going to amount to much. I hope not as I have a party to go to tonight.

Fingers crossed that this goes through! If it does, do any of you tech wizards know why I kept getting that error message?

Anonymous said...

At the prices they charge in uptown Manhattan, ... All food is only a snack.

A meal costs too much.

Heck, even the McDonalds sells only Happy Snacks, in the city.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad, in a non sadistic way, that other people are also getting error 404 codes when trying to post.

... And I thought the blog was dissing me because I forgot to change my underwear, last week.

I'm glad it's not me. Solong as it's not personal...

Abejo said...

Good afternoon, folks. Thank you, Michael Wiesenberg and David Steinberg, for a fine puzzle. Very Clever. Thank you, Lemonade, for the fine review.

Took me a while to catch on to the theme. I got SALMON early and SWIMMING UPSTREAM filled in since I had a few letters to start. The tough part was the theme of reverse words. Once I figured that out it all fell together.

Everything else was typical crossword fare, and a little tough being a Friday.

Did not know CHORIZO. Perped it.

Did not know STACEY. Perped her. Thank goodness the Downs were easy.

Did not know CARRERE. Perps.

Very impressed with the theme. Great job!

Lots to do today.

See you tomorrow.



Abejo said...

Montana: Glad it worked for you. I do it all the time when traveling.


Chickie said...

Hola Everyone, What a fun puzzle with the words of the Salmon types swimming upstream. I actually got the theme and the names of all the Salmon, but with one glitch. I put in Spawning upstream and so the whole NW corner was all botched up because I didn't know It's Pat. I also put in Sews for Tailors' work, as I had Yens for hankering. I knew Hankering wasn't asking for a plural, but I couldn't think of anything else. Sigh!

So---a DNF for me today, but I'm happy with the fact that I GOT the theme. A plus in my book.

I loved the clues for Course-prep course/HomeEc and Smart guy/Alec.

My SUV is a V-six, so that clue came easily as did One Who Has Class. Teacher wouldn't fit, so pupil was the next choice.

Thanks Lemon for a great writeup and C.C. for the book review.

Have a great day, everyone.

windhover said...

Earlier Anon,
I know you were kidding, but it's entirely possible that if you did not change your underwear, Google would probably know it, and for certain the NSA would know it. Life in the future is here now.
I liked this puzzle, if for no other reason than it's Friday and I was able to solve it without help, which is not always the case.
I'm mostly posting, though, so I can try out CC's pic posting advice on the iPhone. I used to email my pics (along with my password) to ClearAyes and she would make the change for me. She was that kinda gal. Miss her badly.

Husker Gary said...

What a fun time even with one bad cell at chUm (shark bait)/Ule and not chIm?/Ile. I saw EYE and knew SOCKEYE but the light only came on when I was 80% done. I also knew COHO and was determined to put it in at _ _ H _ at 47D and even thought about MAHI. How could KOON _ _ _ be a SALMON, etc. And then the squares going up L -> R in sequence also, oh my! Thanks Michael and David.

-Blogging late because Joann’s shopping ITCH had not been sufficiently scratched and Bath and Body Works had $20 candles on sale for $8. Dang they’re heavy. Saw some SMOKED Salmon at the store
-Movies based on SNL skits. Loved 1 and 9 skipped the rest
-Is that culinary hall of fame based on the preparer or his preparation?
-DAY ONE entry – Our itinerary includes a three hour tour aboard the SS Minnow
-There is disagreement as to whether ALI got his Parkinson’s from boxing or not. Some call his condition “dementia pugilistica” which was called “punch drunk” at one time
-Home Ec today is verboten, it is now called called this
-When we dissect chicken wings, the kids are amazed that bones are hollow and have this red/maroon MARROW in the middle which they proceed to dig out
-I’ve had a V-SIX and an INLINE six
-Yes, Lemon, they aerated and sanded the greens in October and it was like putting on a gravel parking lot. I almost quit. All right, I didn’t even think about it but still...
-We live very close to Prague, Venice, Belgrade and Colon here in eastern Nebraska.
-Now to read your posts

Lemonade714 said...

Windhover, Nice picture work. Yes CA was a very class and fun person. We have been very luck over the years with the quality of people who stay for a while.

I am not sure for what or when but I sense the Happy Snacks will be used again.

windhover said...

So much for that. Now I'm a gray faced anon. :-)

Gary -
Right you are, but 'Home Economics' in the original Greek meaning of the word was much more descriptive of what was (or needed to be) learned in that study than 'Family and Consumer Science'. It doesn't take much knowledge to be a consumer, just a handful of plastic, and there's a hell of a lot more art than science in building and maintaining a household.
For a much better treatment of the topic than I have space (or brains) for, see Wendell Berry's book of the same name.
BTW, my sign in word was nonGov.

CrossEyedDave said...

Irish Miss @12:08

Tech Wizards would need more info about what type of computer & operating system/browser you are using to solve the problem. However this site is very helpful.

Try the F5 or refresh the page.

delete your caches, they sometimes get corrupted & you don't need them anyway. Email me if you need to know how to delete your cache, but I will need your computer info. Basically your browser will have a history record, & on that record page somewhere you will find a "delete history" option. It's good to do it to free up memory for a faster computer on a regular basis.

The problem is there are many hidden "temporary files" in Windows that also need deleting regularly. Finding them can be a problem.

If you search your hard drive for temp files, be sure to only delete their contents, & not the whole file.

Ol' Man Keith said...

This was just mean.
Lemonade, thanks for asking our opinion! I mean "mean" in the good sense, of course, as the pzl abides by the rules, or by its OWN rules, at any rate. But any Xword that expects the non-marine biologist (or determined fisherman) to know at least five types of salmon is sufficiently nasty -- without going the additional distance of expecting a solver to dis-anagramatize them.

I congratulate myself that I got all the unfishy answers readily enough. Unfortunately, the jumbled salmon types weren't helped by perps that could take more than one reasonable answer (such as 53A).
The creators' efforts might have gained some legitimacy by hinting somewhere that the letters would be mixed up, but I see nothing in the clues to raise such a warning. Did I miss it?

I won't go as far as unclefred @ 6:08 to say I hated it, but it's not on my hit list; it falls to the right of my bell curve for challenge but well to the left for fair dealing.

HeartRx said...

Keith Fowler, the names of the salmon were not anagrams - they were simply written from bottom to top in the puzzle.
S (read from bottom up to see SOCKEYE)

The hint to how they should be entered was in 3-D and 41-D, "phenomenon that's graphically demonstrated five times in this puzzle." So you had to enter the names "swimming upstream."

I must be a masochist or something because I just love unusual themes like this!!

River Doc said...

Happy Friday everybody!

Put me down for a DNF. Like Mari and others, I got SWIMMING, UPSTREAM, and SALMON, and from there could not "fathom" the strange spellings of the different types of salmon, especially those ending in HC....

Turned on the red letters, as lunch hour was almost over, then had the DO'H moment. Still enjoyed the puzzle, just disappointed I didn't grok the theme....

Still not sure why PEPSI is an informal name - short for Pepsi Cola Company...?

My last 3 cars all had V-SIXes. Previous two were a V-8 and A V-4, so I guess the MEAN is 6...?

Til the weekend, Doc out....

Irish Miss said...

CED @ 1:52 - Thanks for your input. I use an iPad, if that sheds any new light on my problem.

Clean Undies said...

I also use an IPad and now I am able to post with impudence. The error 404 .... must have been due to the fact of the blog "being down".

Probably as a result of the puzzle answers being posted upside down ... Anyway, that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. See what happens when you have unconventional constructors, and you give them the run of the place.

BTW, I just had a bath and did change into fresh unmentionables. Not because of the blog, though.

I am planning to go out, to shop, and I thought , I might as well have clean underwear in case I get into an accident and they have to rush me to a hospital. I'd hate to force any unethical decisions on the emergency room EMTs.

Windy, thanks for the support, I will leave my used
. lingerie . in the basket for a few days, just in case the NSA, CIA, TSA or anybody else should want to take a look. ( If they're monitoring this blog --- please treat this as a personal invitation.)

Bill G. said...

Irish Miss, as I said earlier, my first post disappeared (Error 404) too when I went to Preview. If I remember, I try to save each post to the clipboard first before doing anything. When I forget, the gremlin often punishes me just for his perverse fun I'm guessing. (I just saved this one.)

Marti, as is often the case, I agree with you. No anagrams and Swimming Upstream was a big clue that the salmon types were spelled up instead of down. I thought it was very clever once I tumbled to the gimmick.

I think that there are only a finite number of themes and by my count, this puzzle has used up the very last one. If I'm right, then there is no theme left for tomorrow's puzzle. We'll see if I'm correct when tomorrow's puzzle is revealed. :>)

Clean Undies: If the NSA etc. isn't interested in coming by to inspect your lingerie, I'm always glad to help out. I don't have any tutoring this afternoon and I could reschedule my bike ride if you are in the area...

PK said...

Hi Y'all! Michael & David, oh you tricky devils! I didn't get much in the top third of the puzzle except SWIMMING on the first passes. Kept plugging in what I could. Was surprised when SALMON leaped into view. The reveal used bigger words than I was processing at 2 a.m. so was no help. Also no help was that I couldn't think of the SALMON kinds I know from reading Dana Stabenow. All was this incomplete gibberfish. Then I saw CHUM and laughed aloud at the cleverness. This let me fill in the rest easily.

I had been to a fish ladder installation run by the US Fish & Game in Washington State and watched from behind glass the close-up and personal leaping fish go UPSTREAM. Ate fresh caught
SALMON on the shore of the Frasier River in Canada.

Diminutive suffix: ULE? I wanted "ino" as in bambino and nino. Tried "ett".

Never heard of the movie. Rarely see SNL. WAGd EMERIL with several letters. Don't watch food shows. Too fattening.

LINUX, penguin? Thought of the old Hornet's basketball team who I keep miss-naming the penguins. Can't remember Pelicans. Oh well, they both eat fish.

desper-otto said...

Oh, Auntie Em, it's good to be home…and able to work the pzl in the newspaper!

I really liked this one. WHRSAWDAHSAWYRAMS -- (What HeartRX said about what Dudley and Hahtoolah said, and what YR and Montana said) -- COHO was the key. It would have been even better if UPSTREAM had been MAERTSPU!

CED, if Irish Miss is anything like DW, she won't need any help deleting the cash.

I visited brother and niece this past week, in addition to sister who's in the hospital. Well, brother got really sick on Wednesday. Niece got sick today. Either I'm due for a tough weekend, or I was the "Typhoid Mary" who brought the devastation along with me. Neither scenario is appealing.

Barbara G. said...


young man, you come inside this very minute .....

And you're grounded for the rest of the day.

Ol' Man Keith said...

HeartRX @ 2:21,
THANK YOU for pointing to my blind spot. Honestly, just as clearly as you have spelled it out, I was equally mystified in the opposite direction. I should have seen it, but I didn't. I hereby withdraw my objections and re-rank this pzl among the best - for revealing me as its perfect fool.

CrossEyedDave said...

Irish Miss @2:54

I am not to familiar with Apple products, but my daughter is.

1st try the refresh button, the Blog could be down momentarily.

If the 404 error happens a lot, on your Ipad, go to "settings."

Go to your Browser, which should be "Safari."

press the red button that says "delete history." (bear in mind that you will lose the trail of all the websites you have visited.)

If that does not work, try also "delete cookies." It sounds terrifying, but all most cookies do besides track you is that they contain preload info that makes the webpage load faster. The next time you visit a website, it will check you & download a new cookie anyway.

Basically all you are doing is making the Ipad like it was when you took it out of the box.

If you do not use Safari, other browsers like Google Chrome & Firefox have similar delete options.

I have not had much luck with Apple. My daughter bought me an IGrill thermometer last year that connects to my wifes Ipad. When it works, it's great. The trouble is it rarely works.

(I am convinced it hates me as much as I hate it.)

Hm, which reminds me, I should add "new cooking probe thermometer" to my Xmas list this year....

P.S. always copy yr post before you hit publish!

HeartRx said...


windhover said...

Bill G.
Be careful what you volunteer for, dude. For all we know Clean Undies is a CD (not that there's anything wrong with that)
Thanks to Fearless Leader for filling the (tech challenged iPhone user) gap. I should explain the new pic. I'm not generally in the habit of wearing feather boas (again, not that there's anything wrong with that). The pic was taken at a recent Hallowe'en party. The Irish went as Little Debbie (the Atlanta-based snack food entrepeneuress, not the one who "Did Dallas") and I was a Swiss Roll snack cake. I figured no one would "get it", but I was wrong. They were all already drinking when we arrived, and as you know alcohol sharpens the mind. (I learned that from Cliff on Cheers).
If you don't get the Dallas reference, please don't ask. If you do, you're guilty, too. Again, not that there's .......
Could some Southern Blogger please link a pic of Little Debbie (the first one, please) so that everyone can see the amazing resemblance.
Thanks, CC.

Tinbeni said...

I hope this works ...

Little Debbie

desper-otto said...

Nice job, Tin. Now how 'bout the Debbie who "does Dallas?"

You know who said...


First time I seen you.

Just wanted to say

Hey goodlookin !!

You got goo goo google eyes.

windhover said...

Thanks, Tin, hoped you'd come thru.
And thanks, YKW. Flattery will get you anywhere.
Little Debbie and I are headed out tonight to see a good Lexington band do Elvis' Christmas album from '58. This band does "concept" shows. Last NYE they did a Led Zep tribute, and just a few weeks ago they did Gram Parsons and the Flying Burrito Brothers. Lots of range, you say? You bet. Looking forward to it.

Just helping out said...


Here you go

"Dallas doing", Debbie

David Steinberg said...

Thanks for the nice write-up, Lemonade, and for all the comments, everyone! I'm glad many of you enjoyed our puzzle!

Michael came up with the idea of different types of salmon reading vertically, and I noticed that the symmetrical pair of theme entries SWIMMING/UPSTREAM could be added to the grid. I then did most of the fill, and Michael took first pass at the clues. In all, we had a lot of fun constructing this one!

By the way, for those of you who live in the L.A. area, I'll be giving a talk on December 21 at the Palos Verdes Peninsula Center Library about the crossword centennial, the Pre-Shortzian Puzzle Project, and crossword constructing, solving, and editing—I hope to see some of you there! More details can be found here:

Jayce said...

Hello everybody. Well, I disliked this puzzle at first, then grew to admire it after I solved it. Interestingly, having recently read one of Dana Stabenow's books about salmon fishing in Alaska, I researched salmon and therefore remembered all five of those types. It took me a long time to realize they were spelling from bottom to top. Like many of you, it was OHOC <-> COHO that clued me in. Overall, a gimmicky puzzle, but not dislikable.
Best wishes to you all.

Jayce said...

Sorry, PK. I wrote my comment before I read yours and your reference to Dana Stabenow.

Spitzboov said...

Windhover @ 1557 - Puzzled over CD so went to the Urban Dict. Guess I gotta get out more.

Re SALMON - Best salmon I ever tasted was at a luncheon in Trondheim, NO. The smoked salmon tasted like candy.

TTP said...

Congratulations again to you and Michael.

That's a wonderful opportunity for you to be able to present.

Here's a TinyURL for that long link. You might want to copy it and send it out instead of the long one...

For those on this blog, here's the
Link to the Event Information at the Palos Verdes Peninsula Center Library

Al Cyone said...

CED: Just to be clear, deleting the browser's history is not the same thing as clearing its cache. The former is simply a list of sites you've visited. The latter contains saved pages so that the browser can retrieve them more quickly than going to the Internet for them (it assumes they haven't changed).

Larry said...

The puzzle was easier to decipher than the first paragraph of today's convoluted write-up.

HeartRx's comment @ 221p helped. Thanks.

Urbanologist said...

Just to save everyone the bother of looking it up.
Per urban dictionary.

(That's why I prefer to live in the woods ...)

CD ...... Cross dresser also c-m dumpster.

Also c----m demonstration.

(. Other than bank CDs and computer CDs. )

CDS. ...... Cranial d--k slap ..... Don't ask.

Do they solve urban crossword puzzles in the urban, ( read inner city). , using the urban dictionary ?

Bill V. said...

Enjoyed all the comments and I too enjoyed the puzzle although I normally do not luke cross referenced clues. This is a nice community of people. Nice to share with all.

PK said...

Desperato, if you all have been hanging out in a hospital there is no telling what germs all three of you have encountered. Don't blame yourself. I hope your sister's condition is not serious. I'm sure they all appreciated your coming.

CrossEyedDave said...

Al Cyclone @ 5:42

Yes, you are correct.

I forget because I use Google Chrome & its clear history option is pretty much all inclusive if you check all the boxes.

I have had this Windows 8 PC for about a year now, & I am finally getting to know how to use it. Prior to this I had a 10 year old dell with RAM maxed out at 750K. Being a Gamer, (Call of duty online multiplayer) it was a dinosaur, & when the hard drive filled up to the point where there was not enough room to Defrag, I started deleting "Temp Files".

I found 2 megabytes of memory being used by Windows temp files, so clearing them became a weekly chore.

Sorry, I am rambling. You hit a sore spot... Freeing up memory is a passion when your a gamer with a maxed out PC...

Irish Miss said...

CED @ 3:37 - I think it was a momentary glitch with Google because the last post I made, I had to re-enter my password and then it was smooth sailing.

Just returned from one of my niece's 50th birthday party. Talk about food overload! Pizza, stuffed bread, chicken Milanese, eggplant parm, veal parm, baked ziti, fettuccine al fredo, two different salads, bread, huge anti-pasta, and for dessert, a cake, cupcakes, and Italian jinettes (sp). Head count was 32.

I haven't downloaded Cruciverb yet, but I have a feeling that we are due for a Silkie.

Goodnight to all.

Lemonade714 said...

David Steinberg thanks for stopping by and providing a look at how this was created.

Sorry if my theme explanation was not clear. It made sense to me but Warti did fix it.

Power off for hours enjoy the rest of the weekend

Lucina said...

Good evening, all!

Wow! It's been a wild party today with plenty of passion for the puzzle, pro or ANTI.

At first I was confused but when I saw SALMON and UPSTREAM, I caught the gimmick. Very clever! Not my favorite kind of puzzle, but fairly easy today and once I knew I was looking for the types of SALMON, I was in.

I did this during the few down times we had (my sister, the "captain" is a task master). Out of curiosity I asked the younger generation, my daughter and her cousins, about #1A and they immediately knew and started a dialog imitating the skit. So they helped me with ITS PAT.

Otherwise, the rest of the fill was really easy except HOME EC. By the end of the day I was too tired to think or to care so just left it. I hate that and that's what is great about doing the puzzle in the morning when I'm fresh. Paper and pencil, always.

In a very simple explanation, tamales are a mix of corn meal stuffed with red chile made with shredded beef and pork. If you want a more detailed explanation, a recipe was posted and can be found in the blog archive under "tamale recipe."

I really enjoyed your late posts yesterday.

I truly hope you all had a wonderful Friday!

Lucina said...

If you post later tonight I'll read it tomorrow as I am headed for bed. It has been a long, tiring day.

Tee shirt I saw:

iTired. There's a nap for that.

Bill G. said...

I've tried changing my avatar photo with one I save on a webpage. How does it look full sized? It's not as large as I would have liked.

kjinkc said...

Cc-from last nite, thanks for the info on getting an app from MS. I'll take care to ensure LA Times is included.

CED from yesterday loved the pics for dog & cat lovers & everyone else.

This is my first stab at posting from the tablet...fingers x'ed

Martin said...

Got the theme (SALMON and SWIMMING UPSTREAM) and then had to quit. I didn't even know there were different types of salmon. Nor did it occur to me that i was supposed to read the names backwards.