, pub-2774194725043577, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0 L.A.Times Crossword Corner: Tuesday September 30, 2008 John Underwood


Sep 30, 2008

Tuesday September 30, 2008 John Underwood

Theme: Fruity Places

17A: Colorado site of three U. S. Opens: CHERRY HILLS

24A: Miami neighborhood: COCONUT GROVE

36A: Atlanta's main drag: PEACHTREE STREET

48A: Santa Ana, CA location: ORANGE COUNTY

58A: Roy and Dale's California town: APPLE VALLEY

COCONUT is not a fruit. It's a nut, isn't it? Such high fat content. I've never been fond of raw COCONUT milk or COCONUT meat. Always bake them first.

I liked this puzzle very much, so fresh, fruity and sweet. I still can not grok Norma Steinberg's choice of CLANG CLANG CLANG as a theme answer yesterday. I know it's trolley sound, but really it does not fit the other 2 theme entry pattern, unless I completely misread her mind.

I also liked how DECKS (1D: Ship's floor) intersects KOS (20A: Bout enders). I wonder what John Underwood's original clue is for DECKS, since it can also mean "Knocks down". The clue for SKILLET (46A: Cast-iron pan) is simply wrong. He probably never cooks.


1A: Thingamajig: DOODAD. I wonder if anyone has constructed a "Gizmo" themed puzzle. It would be very scrabbly.

11A: Canine grp.: AKC (American Kennel Club). I just learned that except Kenturky Derby (first held in 1875), no other continuously held sporting event in the US is older than Westminster show (1877).

14A: Bakery treat: ECLAIR. Decadent and delicious.

15A: Temple, ancient: NAOS. Greek for "temple". "Cella" for the Romans. I've never heard of it before. I suppose you can call Temple of Applo a NAOS. I wonder what is the diameter of those great columns.

31A: So I think, online: IMO. This is an excellent acronyms list. Thx, Clear Ayes.

27A: Gordon and Sheila: MACRAES. I got it from the down fills. Know neither of them.

32A: "And I love ___": HER. Here is the song. Does "HER" refer to Yoko Ono?

43A: Zigzag: WEAVE. They are not really synonymous, are they?

52A: Paid male date: GIGOLO. "American GIGOLO" is the first Richard Gere movie I saw.

62A: Tours season: ETE. Here is a map, see where Tours is? I like this clue.


2D: Cinco y tres: OCHO That will be "HUIT" in Tours.

4D: __ es Salaam: DAR. No idea. It's the largest city in Tanzania.

5D: Jordan's nickname: AIR. Always thought it's "AIR Jordan" altogether, not AIR alone.

6D: Solid carbon dioxide: DRY ICE

7D: Vidalia veggie: ONION. Nice gift box.

9D: Cell phone clip-ons: HOLSTERS. Here?

12D: City on the Vyatka River: KIROV. Foreign to me. See this map. Lots of "oblast", what does it mean? Province?

13D: __ de menthe: CREME. But I want some CREME brûlée, and this, and this. Je te veux, que je t'adore.

29D: Hammer end: CLAW. Seattle John said last time that the CLAW "is not technically an end of a hammer. It is an end of the hammer poll. A hammer has two parts - the handle and the poll. The poll is commonly called the hammer head. The poll has two ends - the face and the peen. The face obviously is the flat end for pounding things. The peen can take on various shapes depending on the hammer's intended use. The most common shapes are ball and claw. A ball peen hammer is used for forging materials and a claw peen hammer can be used for prying things like extracting nails."

34D: Campbell of "Scream": NEVE. I've never seen "Scream". I liked her Julia role on "Party of Five".

38D: Recruiting grp.: ROTC. Really?

39D: Piccadilly dilly: TWIT. I don't understand this one. What is "Piccadilly dilly"?

45D: Crazy Horse, for one: OGLALA

46D: Operatic spear carrier: SUPE. I did not know the meaning of "operatic spear carrier".

47D: Jacks: KNAVES. This answer did not come easily to me at all.

48D: Eyeballed: OGLED. I always thought of "eyeball" as "roughly measure something", as Rachel Ray often does.

51D: Tiny hooter: OWLET. Look at this lovely saw-whet, the smallest owl according to Kit.

55D: Unskilled toiler: PEON. So close to PEONY.

59D: Free ad: PSA (Public Service Announcement).



Dennis said...

Good morning, c.c. and fellow DFs, DFettes -- two in a row now, thanks to the perps. They gave me the spelling of 'Macraes' and also the first name of filmmaker Riefenstahl, which I can never remember.

I was never in the R.O.T.C., but are they really a 'recruiting group'?

c.c., nice picture of creme brulee - my favorite dessert. And I had no problem with 'weave' for 'zig-zag.

It's gonna be a beautiful day here in the NE; hope it's an outstanding day where you are.

Zhouqin (C.C.) Burnikel said...

Maybe you should call General Powell, he was in ROTC. What is "Piccadilly dilly" (39D)?

Anonymous said...

Piccadilly = London, England

Dilly = odd, foolish, eccentric

Just a bit of the English sense of humor.

Bill said...

Recruiting of a sort, I think.
At least there are options.

Another no "G" day. A bit slower but there were some other distractions too.
I don't know about the actual definition of SKILLET but since I was a kid my Mom and Dad always called the cast iron frying pans "SKILLETS". Since that's the only thing I have to go on the clue sounds fine to me.

Dick said...

Good morning Cc, DFs and Dfettes, Another likable puzzle for me today, somewhat difficult but very doable. Cc I believe 24A is COCONUT GROVE and not coconut trove. I am sure this is a typo.

Dr. Dad said...

Good morning fellow DF's.
A bit of trouble in the SE corner but got through it. The rest was easy.

C.C - change "Coconut Trove" to "Coconut Grove."

When the coconut is young, it has properties like fruit, and as it matures, it becomes more nutty. But in fact it is not a nut or a fruit; it is a seed. Unless it is picked, a matured coconut eventually drops from the tree. The fully developed hard shell does not crack easily. Dry and brown, the coconut may sit underneath the tree for months and appear as if it were dead, until one day a green shoot pushes its way out of the shell.

A frying pan (aka skillet) was originally made of cast iron. Today they are more commonly made of aluminum or stainless steel). Thus, I am okay with the clue. As a kid back on the farm, those are exactly the terms we used. BTW, I cook.

I don't understand Piccadilly Dilly and Twit, either. Only Piccadilly Dilly I know of was as a cartoon segment on the Huckleberry Hound Show.

Today is National Mud Pack Day.

"Cheers" premiers, 1982;
"The Flintstones" premiered on ABC, 1960;
The Hoover Dam is dedicated, 1935;the last episode of "The Howdy Doody Show" airs on NBC, 1960. (Clarabell finally spoke and said "Goodbye kids.")
Tylenol laced with cyanide kills six people in the Chicago, Illinois area, 1982.

Have a great Tuesday.

Anonymous said...

This one took me an hour... with google. There were a lot of proper names (mostly place names) and I had to google them (including the theme fills) all except for MIR and ANA Gasteyer. It took me a while to remember MIR but ANA appeared last week, didn't it?

Sallie, I appreciate your need for precision in English but I have a different perspective. First of all, I'm Canadian so when I see "flavor", "color", "neighbor" or "center" I cringe because, let's face it, it should be "flavour", "colour", "neighbour"and "centre". Webster knew the standard spellings but he was encouraging American English to be different from British English. I can understand this point of view: people want to spell words their own way because it gives them a sense of identity... but to me these spellings are wrong. Period.

Second, I'm teaching English overseas and, frankly, my priority is to make sure that students are intelligible: I would never question the use of "off of" because it's use doesn't cause any confusion, unlike the example "eats, shoots and leaves" that somebody save earlier. Sometimes something as simple as a missing comma can cause a lot of confusion.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, saying that "off of" is wrong seems awfully arbitrary. Why can't I say "I washed the dirt off of the car" when I am allowed to say "We are out of soap" or "I am out of here"? When I teach English I try to justify to students why their mistakes are wrong. If I don't then they will spend all their time memorizing the rules and they will never speak like native speakers.


P.S. I tried three times but blogger won't accept my password

Barry G. said...

Morning, folks!

Once again, I was able to get through today's puzzle unassisted, but once again I was left with a couple of WTF moments that left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

Not only didn't I know NAOS, but I couldn't even parse the clue properly. Why "temple, ancient" instead of simply "ancient temple"? Or, if the clue was looking for an ancient word for "temple", why not "temple, anciently"?

I understand "Operatic spear carrier" to be one of the extras in an operatic production that just stand to the side holding a spear, and metaphorically it refers to a person whose actions are of little significance or value in an event or organization. But SUPE means nothing whatsoever to me and it's not in my standard dictionary.

Finally, I've never seen "dilly" used to mean "odd, foolish or eccentric." I've only seen it used to mean "something remarkable or outstanding" (and my dictionary backs me up on this). But maybe it does have a different meaning on the other side of the pond.

Let's see...

According to my handy desktop reference, a coconut is "the drupaceous fruit of the coconut palm whose outer fibrous husk yields coir and whose nut contains thick edible meat and coconut milk." And an oblast is "a political subdivision of Imperial Russia or of a republic in the U.S.S.R."

Martin said...


Back in the old country, "to dilly dally" means "to waste one's time" so anonymous' claim that "dilly" means "foolish" is plausible.

I misread the clue for 64A as "captivated" and had ENRAPT instead of ENAMOR for a while. Of course, ENRAPT didn't fit and that's what tipped me off.


pattispa said...

Good morning c.c. and all,
I'm back online...hooray! I missed yesterday's puzzle and all the comments that went with it.

Cast iron pan (skillet) troubled me a bit. A cast iron pan need not be a skillet. It could be a saute pan. Skillets have sloping sides while saute pans have straight up-and-down sides. I am the proud possessor of my mother 's cast iron skillet, perfectly seasoned. As long as you do not have arthritis, they are the perfect pan, hold heat well and never wear out.

melissa bee said...

good morning c.c. and all,

smooth sailing today. c.c. i think the theme might be kinds of TREEs, which is anchored right in the middle.

i know not all cast-iron pans are skillets, but i'm okay with the clue. 'and i love her' is a great tune, thanks for the link. wikipedia does not say who it was written about. astute observation about DECKS and KOS. loved the je te veux video .. what is your connection between FLOWERS and sweets?

Chris in LA said...

Good morning CC etal:
Not bad today - no googles as the odd names ("naos", Leni", "Agnes", Ulee", etc.) all revealed on the perps.

I think 46D (operatic spear carrier) should have been clued as an abbr. - supernumerary is a term used to refer to extras in live operatic productions. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I spent 2 years obtaining, providing, and designing props for a metropolitan opera company - I knew the term, as well as it's common abbreviation "super", but never heard anyone refer to one of them as a "supe". The first couple of pages of a google search for "supe" do not reveal any reference to opera, let alone supernumerary. I think we got hosed on that particular clue - just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Happy Tuesday to all!

Chris in LA said...

PS - supernumerary would be a great 13 letter fill - they could even use the original clue!

IMHO anyway.

Barry G. said...

I think 46D (operatic spear carrier) should have been clued as an abbr. - supernumerary is a term used to refer to extras in live operatic productions.

Ah, the light dawns! As I suspected, SUPE is not actually a word, and I have actually heard the word supernumerary before. Another example of piss-poor editing, frankly.

Dr. Dad said...

I hope the discussion over skillet doesn't end up with someone getting whacked on the head with a frying pan.

Chris in LA said...

On the whole "skillet" thing (boy I'm opiniated this morning) - when I was growing up, if my mom (in the proper "polish" vernacular) ever asked me to "reach me down the skillet" she was referring specifically & exclusively to the cast iron - if she wanted a pan made of something else, she referred to it as a "pot" or a "frying pan" or the "dutch oven". So, while I agree that other types of pots & pans are routinely made of cast iron, the only KIND of skillet there is must be made of cast iron.

I'm done now - y'all have a great day!

melissa bee said...

@martin, et. al.,

the rule about not ending a sentence (or phrase) with a preposition refers to extraneous prepositions. if the sentence is understandable without it, leave it off; if not, leave it in. for example, in the sentence "what did christina ride on?" the preposition "on" is unnecessary since "what did christina ride?" is perfectly understandable.

here is grammar girl's explanation.

KittyB said...

Good morning, C.C. and all.

Chris in la has it right. I've never heard the abbreviation "supe" for a supernumerary. I'd have accepted "super," but "supe" feels as though it was squeezed in to fit the needs of the puzzle.

My mother cooked in cast iron skillets when I was younger and she called them "spiders." Originally cast iron pans sat on tripods over an open fire, and the shadow they cast looked like a spider. I have two of my mother's pans, but I need to re-season them. I need to use two hands now to move them; they are VERY heavy.

LENI, and NAOS came from the fills, or I wouldn't have gotten them. The only place I had difficulty was with SAYSNO. I got a little on-line help and the rest of the corner fell in place.

I knew DAR, but not where Dar es Salaam is located.

I haven't seen IMO used in on-line chat, but the IMHO is very common.

C.C., I agree with you on 'eyeballed.'

Liquid sunshine is coming our way. Whatever your weather is, I hope you have a good day!

KittyB said...

melissa bee, thanks for the link to "Grammar Girl." Her explanation was very clear.

kazie said...

Barry, Supe--short for superfluous maybe? But supernumerary is probably closer.

Twit is an English slang term for a dopey person.

Ken said...

Good morning, C.C. et al. Today's puzzle almost filled itself except for 26D & 30A. I've never seen a Peter Fonda film and hadn't heard of Leni Riefenstahl.

kazie said...

I forgot to say that dilly is a humorous way to refer to another slang term--dillpot, related to the adjective potty--also used for a twitty person.
Leni Riefenstahl was forced (or so we're told) to make a lot of the propaganda films of the Nazis. Then went on to become better known for her earlier work, after a postwar arrest for her association with Hitler.

Ken said...

C.C., Oblast in Russian means province or region or sphere. I can't recall if sphere means sphere of influence or a physical ball; I just recall the definition.

Ken said...

Kazie: Did you see my note on cribbage board collecting last night?

kazie said...

no Ken, and thanks, I went to bed early. I should go back and look

kazie said...

Thanks again Ken. I will check the website out. I'm really only curious though--I don't think I could ever part with it.

Have to run now--I've got an out-of-town day ahead of me.

Ken said...

Kazie, I have my dad's cribbage board from the fifties. It isn't unique but I wouldn't part with it either.

Martin said...


I sent an e-mail to Grammar Girl.

"In your August 29th, 2007 Grammar Girl, you said that "He jumped off of the dock" should be "He jumped off the dock". I'm really not sure. Compare with "He went out of the house": if you say "He went out the house" it sounds really strange. Of course, the problem here is that "went out" is a perfectly good phrasal verb: we usually say "He went out" without specifying "the house". If we then add "the house" and say "He went out the house" it sounds as though there is a preposition missing. Thus, if we were to argue that "jump off" were also a phrasal verb then "He jumped off of the dock" would actually be better than "He jumped off the dock". What sounds wrong to some ears sounds right to others and what sounds right to some ears also sounds wrong to others.

"In any case, "The plane took off from the runway" definitely does not mean the same thing as "The plane took off the runway"."

Anyway, this is all moot because "Flip the lid off" would have been a perfectly good clue for UNCAP so the "of" is unnecessary so, yeah, sure, they might as well have left it off of the clue. ;)


Zhouqin (C.C.) Burnikel said...

Dr. Dad,
If COCONUT is a seed, then it does not really fit the theme pattern, does it?

So COCONUT is a fruit?

Flowers, fruits and desserts are all sweet & pleasing. Interesting take on TREE.

I've checked, "Supernumerary" has never been clued in any puzzle before.

Zhouqin (C.C.) Burnikel said...

You looked so innocent in your yearbook. I know what flowers I want to be sent to, but I am not a Zwitter or URANIAN. What's the difference between perfecta and exacta? I see you got my point on the BELLS. Thanks for the Poe poem. I don't think Idiophone is the correct theme, unless the answers are CLANG CLANG CLANG, JINGLE, JINGLE, JINGLE, RING, RING, RING. So the plural form of sound is still sound?

Why "all about = reverse the letters"? I could only think of PUPPET (PUP PET), still could not figure out "secured to bedroom walls?". My first reaction to your "Perhaps Dick and Dennis had them" was HOT ROD.

Great to hear your voice!

Zhouqin (C.C.) Burnikel said...

So your crib board was made of metal, not wood?

What is "Pluribus ignoramus individulis"? I hope you like my Philippe Entremont link today.

Clear Ayes,
I liked the Wendy Cope poem. Very delightful.

Night Owl,
No, anthurium is the only correct name for that MOREL flower. Do people still shout "Hear, hear"? I thought it's antiquated. Are you a hen owl?

Barry G. said...

Barry, Supe--short for superfluous maybe? But supernumerary is probably closer.

Well, as Chris pointed out earlier, one definition of supernumerary is "an actor employed to play a walk-on," so I'm sure that's what SUPE refers to. But as Chris also pointed out, it's not a valid abbreviation (since it's not actually used) and -- even if it were a valid abbreviation -- it should have been clued as an abbreviation.

So COCONUT is a fruit?

Well, that's what my copy of Funk & Wagnalls says.

Mama P said...

Morning everyone,
I have not received my paper this morning, just the inserts. I'll try the online version.
My grammarical pet peeve is: I seen her.

Dr. Dad said...

C.C. - I googled "Is a coconut a seed?" and that is the answer I found.

Chris in LA said...

OK, I'm back:
@ Mama P - I agree re: "seen", but I think that may be a regional idiom - heard it a lot when I was in Columbus, OH (Geaux Bux!), not at all when I lived in the Bay area of CA, but all the time here in Louisiana.
As an aside, I can always tell what part of Louisiana people are from as they "axe" questions in the New Orleans area, but they "eggs" questions in other parts of the state.
I am by no-stretch-of-the-imagination a linguist, but these little idiosyncracies have always fascinated me.
So let me "eggs" you a question - do you have similar observations?

Argyle said...

Re: Yearbook pic, I was so not DF back then...but that WAS a long time ago.

Re: zwitter flowers, I'm sure you don't need to send flowers to yourself.

Re: idiophonic sound - the sound produced by a resonating percussion instrument. Ergo, ring, clang, and jingle, not rings, clangs, and jingles. Note these words can be either nouns or verbs. 39A was clued as Trolley sound. So Sound would be the main theme and idiophonic the type of Sound.

carol said...

Good morning C.C.,DF's,DFettes and all, another easy one, I am in shock! Not that I got all easily, I just did not have to visit Mr.G or my c/w dictionary.
Makes a good start to the day, although I can think of a better one!!

Twit is British slang for someone who is silly or as American slang would say, "an airhead".

Ken, I have a cribbage board that was handmade in 1921 by someone in my Mother's had steel pegs but those were lost and Mom and Dad used wooden match sticks (with the "heads" cut off) for pegs. I have the board tucked has great sentimental value to me. I learned to play on that board, and watched my family play on it all through my childhood. Great memories, lots of laughter,coffee, and cake all around the dining table when relatives got together.

Clear Ayes said...

Good Morning All, Pattispa and I are very happy to be back on track with the online puzzle. I think Argyle is an online kind of guy too. Thanks to the Tribune staff for paying attention to us.

Today's puzzle was a nice one. No difficult words for me except NAOS and SUPE.

Like a couple of other posters, I thought perhaps it was short for SUPErfluous. Those spear carriers just march in and fill in the background space. But I was happy to learn SUPErnumerary is a real opera term....Now if I can just figure out a way to work it into general conversation, I'll be able to impress my friends. ("Wow, did you see PBS's production of Aida last night? Those supernumeraries were amazing!")

I don't have arthritis, but Pattispa and Kittyb are right. Cast iron is so heavy. I gave my SKILLET to my youngest sister a few years ago and I've been sorry more than once, when I have made fried chicken.

AKC was a gimme. G.A.H. and I had a couple of dalmatians in the '80's and we had pretty good success showing the male Ricky. Ricky was his pet name. They usually have long convoluted AKC names. It was a lot of fun, but quite expensive and a lot of traveling on weekends. This particular show was in ORANGE COUNTY.

I always loved Gordon MACRAE. He was a very talented singer. One of my favorites was People Will Say We're In Love from Oklahoma.

I appreciated Kazie's take on LENI Riefenstahl. How much "forcing" was involved is something we will never really know. If the outcome of WWII had been different, she would probably be remembered very differently. Her movies "Triumph of the Will" and "Olympia" were beautifully filmed, creepy in retrospect, Third Reich propaganda documentaries.

I think all our DF's will appreciate the following poem...

Love in a Bathtub Years Later

we'll remember the bathtub
the position of the taps
the water, slippery
as if a bucketful of eels had joined us ...
we'll be old, our children grown up
but we'll remember the water sloshing out
the useless soap,
the mountain of wet towels.
'Remember the bathtub in Belfast?'
we'll prod each other -

-- Sujata Bhatt

Argyle said...

Re: pic: from a more DF time.

The Vyatka River flows into the Kama River which flows into the Volga River which flows into Caspian Sea; a bit obscure, eh?

naos / noun, plural -naoi, inner part of a temple, shrine, {cella]: that would indicate it was more like a room within the temple than the temple itself.

Crazy Horse, for one - Oglala / The principal division of the Teton Sioux (contr. of Titonwan, 'dwellers on the prairie'). The western and principal division of the Dakota or Sioux.

Bill said...

And I think the theme should be:

Joyce Kilmer

I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.

A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;

A tree that looks at God all day, 5
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;

Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain. 10

Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.

Robin said...

Good morning c.c. and all. I enjoyed this puzzle and all the fruity references. I still have a problem with twit referenced as a dilly...
Thank you Melissa Bee for the reference to Grammer Girl, I will use that often. ' And I Love Her' was written in 1963-64 by Paul McCartney and Lennon (the middle eighth) for Pauls girl friend Jane Asher.
Have a great day all.

Crockett1947 said...

Good morning, everyone!

NAOS, LENI, SUPE were new to me today.

I think zigzag and WEAVE used as verbs would be synonymous.

The "American Gigolo" link didn't get me a movie poster.

That's a wild cell phone holster placement!

Not sure, but I think a Piccadilly dilly refers to one of those alternate reality types one can see in Piccadilly Square.

That oven shot of Rachel Ray looks like a Photoshop creation to me. I'm sure she dresses in heels, a lacy bra and a provocative skirt to cook a turkey -- NOT!

The eyes on that owl are soooo big!

@melissa bee I think you might be more accurate on the theme there.

@bill Thank you for "Trees."

Barb B said...

I really enjoyed today’s puzzle. It was all good, but I particularly liked the clues to food. I enjoy cooking, and read cookbooks for pleasure. I keep trying to thin out my collection, but it’s hard to part with one.

In addition to all the the fruit and coconut, there was éclair, along with onion and skillet. For the beverages, there’s ale and crème de menthe, kept cold with dry ice. Very enticing. I wonder what kind of meal we could make, starting with those ingredients?

Why is cast iron pan wrong? Skillet is the first thing I thought about.

I see Tours on the map, but I still don’t know why it’s associated with season, which fits with the other food clues. I could season my iron skillet and add seasoning to the food. When I looked at the map I had a hard time finding Tours, because my eye was drawn to Dijon and Bordeaux.

Your crème brulee, strawberries, and flowers added to the meal are perfect, and the music Je te veux, would make things very romantic. Oh, what heavenly pictures on the Je te veux clip; better than my image of the meal, since it provided the setting and even more menu items.

Dr.G said...

C.C.and all,

Like bill I found this one rough, but didn't need the G.

According to wikepedia, clang is a loud metallic resonant sound which is what a bell does.

Anonymous said...

ROTC: My husband was a drill sergeant in his H.S. ROTC, then a sergeant in the army, and he says ROTC is absolutely a recruiting tool. The name means "Reserve Officers Training Corps". He adds that he was given credit for two years when he joined the army and therefore went in as a cpl.

Chris: You're right about supernumerary ( I was around Tri-Cities Opera for years, but they were called supers. My late last husband was one.) and skillet. It's all my family and husband – who cooks – call it.

Anonymous said...

barb b.: In this puzzle, and many others, season refers to time of year. Tours is in France, and ete is French for summer.

Ken said...

@Carol: I'm glad you have such a good story with a family cribbage board. I have metal pegs, either aluminum and red or black and bronze which you may have if you wish to rekindle the metal pegs memories.

@Clear Ayes: I always enjoy learning of a new poet; most of the ones you post are not known to me, so I thank you very much. Two poetry books I recently added to my library are one edited by Garrison Keillor and one by John Lithgow of "Third Rock from the Sun" fame. They both feature lesser or unknown poets.
Are you anywhere near El Dorado Hills? It is not far from Folsom. I'm just curious, we have a cribbage club there and some members were in Portland for the weekend.

@Others. Supernumerary is defined as those beyond a certain number. Any US Navy facility will have a regular rotation of duty stations, every fourth day at shore stations and 4 hours on, 8 hours off. "Supes" are sailors assigned to the facility beyond the normal duty needs. Such folks are normally detailed to clean or paint something(can't have idle sailors now, can you?).
As a young sailor in Va. Beach, (listening, Lois?) I cleaned the classrooms every 4th day for what seemed like years(six months). It was "sweep, swab, wax and buff for about three hours.

I'm pretty sure the airlines who are carrying crew that are "deadheading", ie, traveling home or to an assignment, but not part of that flight crew, are listed as supernumeraries.
The Navy does that.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your help with the puzzle solutions. continue to do do your wonderful work!!!Thanks again

Ken said...

Alfred Joyce Kilmer(1886-1918) was a well known poet in his lifetime, loved by some, critiqued by others He was the leading Catholic poet.
As a sergeant in WW I, killed at the second battle of the Marne when he was 31.

Anonymous said...

mark - Buenos Aires

All over means read it back to front so ad-lit-am becomes matilda

yesterday´s "Young dogs kept at home, secured to the bedroom wall"

young dogs = pups
at home = in
kept = enclosed within

therefore p-in-ups
= secured to bedroom wall = pin-ups

"Use it after breakdown to power convertible" (7 letters)

Clue: "convertible" means there is an anagram in the clue

have a good day everybody

Barb B said...

I know - fall is my favorite season. But I was cooking (in my imagination) so I wanted something else.

I think puzzle creators get in a rut sometimes, and miss opportunities to add a little zest to the clues.

Anonymous said...

Martin: email me. I have 4 suggestions sent by bloggers to get back one's post. I shall send you their suggestions.

Clear Ayes said...

I googled SKILLET and the online dictionaries define it as a frying pan or three-legged pot. I think the notion of a cast iron pan as exclusively a SKILLET is probably an American tradition. We grew up on movies and stories about pioneer women, gathering around the campfire and whompin' up cornbread and beans in the only pan available. In westerns, "Cookie", the chuckwagon chef had only tin pots, a dented percolator and his trusty cast iron skillet to satisfy them thar hongry cowpokes. Stainless steel and Telfon were 100 years in the future.

Those of us who grew up in the mid-west were very familiar with our mothers or grandmothers skillets and the unsurpassed fried chicken that would come out of it.

C.C. you may have to yield to John Underwood and the "A cast iron pan is a SKILLET!" bloggers is on this one.

Bill may have a point about the theme 'Trees". The constructor's name is Under.....wood. Makes you wonder a little bit.

Ken, We are at least a two hour drive from Folsom and El Dorado Hills. I'll just have to keep playing locally...and sometimes getting beaten by my students...phooey!

Another grammar link Jack Lynch. Jack Lynch is an associate professor of English at Rutgers. His site is easily understood and pretty easy going about the "hows and whys".

steve said...

Ken@12:29 :

I have never heard of a deadheading crew being refered to as a supernumeriary. At AA a supernumeriary was a bid line that was normally awarded to a very junior pilot in his four part bid status (BASE, AIRCRAFT, SEAT, SINORITY). What it meant was, after the normal bid was awarderd the junior guys who had bid this supernumeriaries had to wait until scheduling and all of the senior guys had dropped or traded trips or otherwise weaseled out of them. These trips wouold be put together into a monthly schedule and awarded to the junior person who had bid it. Ususally it was a crapy bunch of sequences but better than being on resereve and at schedulings bec and call..

I know probably more than you wanted to know.

Ken said...

Steve: Thanks for the correction! My brother was in the air arm of the Navy and I heard him use the word. Perhaps it is a Navy and not a civilian term? He is gone now, so I can't ask.
I'm always happy to be pulled back into the get-it-right club.

Jeanne said...

Good Afternoon,

I'm late today due to various appointments and getting in my walk. I must thank Dennis for giving me some motivation. His morning workouts at the gym and bike rides were making me feel lazy. For some reason, I had given the walking routine a big recess. Now I'm at it again. So thanks Dennis.

I taught at an inner city school and over 10 yrs. ago they started a JROTC progam. I can't begin to tell you the difference the program made in many of the students. The discipline and dedication carried over in so many aspects of their school lives. The junior program was run by the Marines and brought great pride to the school.

embien said...

7:10 today. Several curious clues/answers, but all gotten from the crosses. LENI, TWIT (in the sense used) and ANA were unknown to me.

c.c.: And I Love Her was written long before Yoko Ono came into the Beatles' picture. I think it was for Paul McCartney's first wife, back in the '60's.

I have several cast iron skillets, but also some non-cast iron skillets (aluminum, etc.) Some came from my mother, some from my mother-in-law, and, when I was still cooking (stopped a couple years ago), the cast iron was my favorite kind of pan. Yeah, it's heavy, but, once seasoned, it cooks like a dream and never wears out, so your grandchildren can use your pans.

g8rmomx2 said...

Hi c.c. and all,

Did not have to google at all yesterday, easy one! Today only googled "supe". I never heard of that term, only supernumerary as others have said. The site "One across" did come up with "supe" right away, and confirmed WPA for me which I had penned in. I was only verifying the "P" as I had the rest. Any other words filled in nicely from the perps.

I did have escort in at first, but changed it to gigolo when the perps didn't fit!

Very familiar with Coconut Grove (The Grove) because when I was growing up in Miami my mom and dad had season tickets every year to the Coconut Grove Playhouse, so when my dad couldn't attend I did. Coconut Grove is also well known for both the Coconut Grove Art Festival and Taste of the Grove Food and Jazz Festival which I was lucky enough to attend many times.

Have a wonderful evening to all!

Argyle said...

Are you people telling me that Kirov on the Vyatka River is a gimme?!

carol said...

Argyle, great new picture!! What are you holding?

Mark in Buenos Aires, I must be very dense, but I cannot understand any of your "puzzles" even when you explain them.

Ken, thanks for the offer of the steel pegs,but I have "retired" the board, so it's no longer in use.

I am enjoying the discussion over skillet vs pan. I have 2 cast iron "frying pans" or skillets and to me both terms are correct. I also have a 5 qt. cast iron dutch oven that we bought right before we got married nearly 38 years ago! It's still perfect, and sure has seen a lot of roasts,etc. I love the cast iron for most things, but I also love my non-stick cast aluminum frying pan/skillet too. Just glad I don't have to cook over a campfire!! Roughing it for me is a hotel where they don't put candy on your pillow!

Chris in LA said...

@ Argyle:
Actually, yes, Kirov was a gimme - it is home to one of the most famous Russian Ballet companies of all time and has brovided such luminaries as Pavlova, Grigorovich, Nureyev & Barishnikov among many others (see my earlier comment re: opera props - also had the pleasure of dealing with the ballet & so the opportunity to see/meet a few of the dancers - the most terrific athletes in the world, IMHO).

lois said...

Good evening CC, DF's, & DFettes:
Good puzzle but got stuck in the SE a little. Foreign to me was 'says no' esp when it crosses 'lay'.

Yeah, Ken, I'm listening. I'm familiar w/the VaBeach 'sweep, swab, wax, buff' a way ...with a little different slant. I sweep 'em in, swab 'em down (tongue bath), wax on and on IN the buff also for hours and hours. It's all good.

Cokato: I never did get the email you mentioned a while back. Wanna try again?

Must be Tues. Gotta go. I'll check back later. Enjoy your night.

DoesItinInk said...

I finished this puzzle hours ago, but work has been so hectic that I am only now finding a chance to check in.

My only stumbling point in today's puzzle was the intersection of WPA and SUPA. Everything went fairly easily.

In case you are worried about the current economic climate, remember that the rate of inflation in Zimbabwe is 11.2 million percent. That might help give some perspective to our situation.

Zhouqin (C.C.) Burnikel said...

Wouldn't be nice if ZEE is clued as "Capital of Zimbabwe?" someday?

KIROV is highly inferable from the across clues.

Zhouqin (C.C.) Burnikel said...

Dennis et al,
FYI, John Underwood's original clue for APPLE VALLEY is "Twin Cities suburb". How nice of him to think of us! But really, it's a better clue because it avoids having 2 theme answers (places) from California. Also, his theme title is "TUTTI FRUTTI".

kazie said...

c.c., Yes, it's metal. I'll try to get a picture of it so you can see.

Well, I hit on the idea of scanning it rather than taking a picture.

I'll put it in my profile now and then post again if that works.

kazie said...

Here it is. You might have to view it full size to get a good look.

The printing at the bottom says "A.A.S.C. 9 DIV. TOBRUK 26.3.41 TO 21.10.41"

The dates are with day before month.

Ken said...

Kazie. That board was made with some real skill and craftsmanship. II'm thrilled just to hear the story.
I really can't speak for what your board might be worth. That there are only three of them and they were made under those circumstances is a wondrous story.
As I mentioned, you might get in touch with that Bette Bemis on the cibbage website to get an idea. I hope it stays in your family forever and someday one of your descendents is part of the ACC.

kazie said...

Thanks Ken,
I'll have to work on that! One of my reasons for wanting to know more on its value was to make sure my kids understand what they inherit in it.

Clear Ayes said...

Argyle, Woo Woo...That is some nifty jacket. You were quite the dude!

Kazie, What a wonderful thing you have in that cribbage board. Antiques Roadshow has made us all more aware of the possible treasures in the back closet.

Ken, I'm glad you are enjoying the poems. I have about a half dozen books of poetry, some classics and some pretty obscure. I have been finding some interesting ones online too. I try to keep the ones I post here under 20 lines or so. I don't want to have any non-poetry folks dozing off.

Cokato, No particular reason, but the poem I posted at 10:49 made me think of you. I hope all of us have had a similar experience at least once in our lives.

I made a big dog show mistake earlier. Dog is the name for the canine species, and it is also the name of males. They aren't called "male dogs" though, that's the same as saying "male men". They are "dogs" and if they get lucky, they are "studs". Females are bitches. Neither dogs or bitches can be shown in AKC confirmation classes if they have been neutered or spayed. There are no wishy-washy words at dog shows.

Although we no longer own AKC registered dogs, we still go to shows when we can. Just about every city has an AKC chapter and they all have annual shows. If you've never been, I recommend it. Seeing all those beautiful, well cared for and sometimes unusual dogs is really fun.

Ken said...

Kazie: Different folks deal with such matters; I'm a sentimental slob and I'd be thrilled were it in my family. I hope the recipient is too. Thanks for including me in the story.

Anonymous said...

I came to here once again by accident as I googled for an answer. I have read through most of your comments and there are many thruout the hole day by the same people over, and over and redundent. I have read most of your profiles. If this is what retirement is all about to you and you can afford to retire, shame on you.

Dennis said...

To the non-spelling anonymous asshole at 7:50, if you're jealous of the intellect shown here, perhaps you should return to your kiddy-porn websites.
Just a thought.

Dennis said...

Apologies to our group for the language. Seemed appropriate.

kazie said...

If 7:50 has the time to read our comments thoroughly enough to notice their redundancy, s/he has nothing better to do either, or else is using his/her boss's time to do it.

The reason some of our responses seem repetitive is because some of us haven't the time to read thoroughly what has come before, since our lives are so full.

Argyle said...

Chris in LA said... @ Argyle: Actually, yes, Kirov was a gimme.

Right name, wrong reason. The ballet and the town were both named in honor of Sergey Kirov.

1. Following the assassination of the Bolshevik revolutionary Sergey Kirov in 1934, the then Soviet Ballet, was renamed the Kirov Ballet a name which is most commonly used to identify the company to this day.

2. The fort of Khlynov, situated just west from the Ural Mountains, was founded by Novgorodian entrepreneurs in 1181. In 1781 Catherine the Great renamed Khlynov to Vyatka. In December 1934, it was renamed after the Soviet leader Sergey Kirov.

Otherwise, no connection.

C.C., are you saying that if a word is "highly inferable" from the cross clues, you would consider it a "gimme" ? I sure don't. If I don't know a word, no matter how sure I am of the perps, it's not a gimme.

Golf Gal said...

Hello, All,
I finally have an identity. The dog is Champ, a granddog. Have been late getting to the crossword, sad to say. When someone mentioned that the Detroit Free Press was df, I must make a correction. The Freep is fine. The ex-mayor was df.
Yesterday's puzzle was easy, I'm happy to say.
Golf Gal

Anonymous said...

Greetings C.C. and all –

C.C. – Thanks for the info on anthurium. I still hear “Hear, hear!” on TV shows and movies and it’s in the books I read. Maybe it is antiquated, heck, maybe I am antiquated. Yes, I am a hen owl.

Thanks, again for the info and for your blog and everything you do for the website and for other people. I really enjoy this site!

Have a great day and keep on puzzling!

Night Owl (Hoot!)

carol said...

To the A.H. at 7:50, I know I have been told to ignore people like you but I can't in this case! I cannot believe someone would say what you just did and cannot even spell! Did you ever attend school?
How can you judge us?? Are you envious that we, who are retired are finally having some fun? We earned every bit of it. Do you earn anything? There are also many people on this blog who are not retired and are probably just tired, given today's economic situation. What's your trouble "bunky"?

Argyle said...

carol said...@ 4:33 PM
Argyle, great new picture!! What are you holding?

I don't remember. It might be a covered serving plate. It was at an ice racing banquet and they gave out a lot of silver-plated doodads for trophys.

carol said...

Argyle - thanks, I think you look cool in the shot. You can come down my chimney at Christmas too. :)

The A.H. got me so upset I forgot to mention that all the talk today about "dilly" reminded me of an old tune from my childhood called "Lavender Blue". I went to Mr.G and typed in "Lavender Blue lyrics" and presto, there were the words I remembered (kind of), I was very young when I heard them.

C.C. I also want to thank you for the clip of "Je te veux", it was lovely!!!!
I wish I could have breakfast, lunch, tea or whatever in that beautiful place!

Clear Ayes said...

Hear, Hear, Kazie..and Dennis too. I am so glad I have time "throughout the whole day to check on the redundant postings. It is wonderful to have been able to retire, so that in addition to volunteering for charities, blood drives, voter precinct work, and numerous community activities, I still have time to solve crossword puzzles,visit with the terrific folks on this blog and learn something new and interesting every day!

Good to see your profile Golf Gal. Is Champ a Golden Retriever? It's hard to tell from the photo.

Gosh, Carol, you brought back some great memories..."Bunky". Here's a blast from the past The Old Philosopher. So funny!

Clear Ayes said...

Oops, let's see if this works The Old Philosopher

Argyle said...

Clear Ayes, there appears to be a problem with your link.

Argyle said...

oops, it appears your link does work. ;-)

Dennis said...

argyle, it worked for me.

Ken said...

To all who've told A S off, good for you and good for the bond we've formed on this great blog of C.C.'s.
I think this is a person who just liked to goad for the attention. No matter how you tell him off, Dennis, and I couldn't agree more, it is just food to him.

@Golf Gal: Welcome and great pix of your pup. I've a border collie cross and I'm sure she is a heckuva lot smarter than I am.

@Clear Ayes: Kudos to you for that volunteer work; it helps make so many of this country keep going.

@Carol: Thanks for the memory trip for Lavender Blue; I'd forgotten the tune and the filling words "dilly dilly."

Golf Gal said...

A few more words...
Champ is an English Golden Retriever, as he is more white than golden. If I had a dog, it would be a G.R.
And iron skillets are special. I have one I use only for corn bread. Some of the newer iron skillets have a rough finish and are not as good as the old ones, in my estimation.
Golf Gal

lois said...

Argyle: being from the more temperate climate of the southwest, my experience w/ice is limited. What is 'ice racing'? Is it ice skating? At any rate, you are a very handsome dude and can come down my chimney too, any time you want.

Carol: Do you remember the Disney movie that Lavender Blue came from? Oh, Dear To My Heart, I think. Never saw it but sure know the song.

Chris in LA said...

@ Argyle: Thanks for clarifying - "K,I,R,O" presented on the perps, which made the "V" a no-brainer - sorry I got the cities screwed up.

Jeannie said...

Well, I see we have another &*^^ on board tonight. Let me be the first one to salute you guys who have put in your time. I haven't shared this in past posts, but am in my mid=forties. I don't understad or relate to alot of your references, but still love to hear about all of them. One of the ones I relate to is the "cast iron skillet". My Mom is 75 years old and has the same skillet from her Mother. She grew up in KY and makes the best fried chicken I have ever had. I know this sounds macab (sp) but my name is on that skillet. BTW, I did the puzzle on line tonight and had to grin at 1A... (Doodad) that was my Mom's saying for a certain male part of their anatomy. Wonderful memories today.
Clearayes, thank you for thinking of me for that poem. And once again, you have clarity. But, be assured, I did at one time in my life waste some soap and soak a floor in my life. Not just lately :(!

Argyle said...

A hit version of the song, sung by Burl Ives, was featured in the Walt Disney movie "So Dear to My Heart."
Later version here

Ice racing is going out on a frozen lake, plowing a course in the snow, then racing cars on it.

Anonymous said...

C.C., thanks for the lovely owlet. I shall be sad to turn my calendar to October, since the wildlife picture for September is a beautiful saw-whet which I admire each day. Wonderful links today, as always. Loved the rose, especially.

Clear Ayes: So enjoy the poems you post. I'm an avid poetry reader and sometimes writer; I have 14 wonderful volumes; could never pick a favorite. Sorry you no longer have your skillet; I have one of my Mother's and I'm holding on to it for dear life!

Happy first day of October to all.


Anonymous said...

Greetings C.C.and all -

Crockett, Thanks for your nice comment last night. I enjoy your posts. I just looked up your profile and I have always liked Barber Shop Harmony.

To all who posted about Anononymous 7:50 - Thank you - you all said what I wanted to.

Have a great day and keep on puzzling and posting!

Night Owl (Hoot!)