Sep 22, 2016

Thursday, September 22nd, 2016 Roger Wienberg

Theme: A mob of Sicilians? No, as the reveal elegantly states:

34D. Raise stakes in a game ... and a hint to a hidden feature of five Down puzzle answers : UP THE ANTE

3D. Europe's highest active volcano : MOUNT ETNA. Nice to see the mountain getting a starring role for once, rather than consigned to the supporting cast of fill.

5D. Cold War Baltic patrollers : SOVIET NAVY. The US Navy was patrolling as well, but out of sight under the surface.

10D. "The Deer Hunter" setting : VIETNAM. A beautiful country - it's on my bucket list to visit.

30D. Green sign information, traditionally : STREET NAME. They're blue in my part of the world. 

43D. Wings eaters' needs : WETNAPS. When I first moved here I was amused to see that these things had instructions on the back. I can still remember verbatim: "This is a moistened towelette. It is a towelette, moistened. Open and use".

Thursday already? Roger's theme is all in the downs as the direction-change wouldn't work with the reveal if the entries ran cross-wise.

I'm guessing that MOUNT ETNA was the seed entry for the theme and a rummage through the dictionary pulled out the other four. Some lively fill and some cluing trickery makes for a satisfying Thursday. Let's go for a meander through the fill and see what jumps out.


1. It's often a stretch : LIMO

5. Grim, as a landscape : STARK. You can be a stark landscape without necessarily being grim. This looks pretty grim though:

10. Debit card choice : VISA. Both of my debit cards are Visa-branded. I recently opened a checking account with Chase because they offered me $300 if I'd direct-deposit at least $500/month and keep the account open for at least six months. Two weeks later, the $300 was in my account. Never turn down free money.

14. Superstar : IDOL

15. Command : ORDER

16. Troublesome tykes : IMPS

17. Bad-blood situation : FEUD

18. One out for blood : VAMPIRE BAT. Nasty-looking little buggers. The common vampire bat will feed off any mammal, including humans.

20. Some browns : TANS

21. Number in an outline, perhaps : III. More likely to be seen as iii. Most style guides recommend using western numerals for major outline points, lowercase roman numerals for sub-outlines. Same goes for Shakespeare citations (see my comment at 48D)

22. Put in stitches : SUTURE

23. Variety show array : TALENTS

26. Disdainful look : SNEER

27. Holes in sneakers : EYELETS

29. Cruising : ASEA

31. Slender-stemmed palm : RATTAN

32. Where to see a wake : AFT. More nautical references this week after a slew of them on Monday.

33. Botch : MUFF

37. Lease alternative : OWN

38. Babies, or what some babies wear : PAMPERS. The verb "babies", not the noun. Had me thinking for a second.

41. Historic beginning? : PRE-

42. Kentucky Fried side : SLAW. KFC have their own branded Wetnaps. 

44. Brewery fixture : VAT

45. In-groups : ELITES

47. Irish New Age singer : ENYA. Let's have a quick "Orinoco Flow" before we get to the downs.

49. Runs aground : BEACHES

50. Striped quartz : AGATE

53. Pork-filled pastry, e.g. : MEAT PIE. Food! Here's a batch of famous Melton Mowbray pork pies from England. They have their own association too.

55. Ruined in the kitchen : BURNED. I tend to burn myself, not the food.

57. Brooke Baldwin's network : CNN

58. Auto parts giant : NAPA. Or the National Automotive Parts Association, to be posh about it.

61. Pearl Harbor battleship : USS ARIZONA

63. Third-generation Genesis name : ENOS. Grandson of Adam and Eve. Depending on who you read, his Dad, Seth was either 105 or 205 when Enos was born.

64. Remote button with a square : STOP

65. Capital on the Willamette : SALEM

66. Pedometer measure : STEP

67. Many millennia : EONS

68. Sky scraper? : SPIRE. Here's a picture of Salisbury Cathedral in England, built between 1220 and 1258. The spire is the tallest in the UK, standing 404ft above Salisbury Plain.

69. Stage layouts : SETS


1. Garage contraption : LIFT.

2. What a light bulb may mean : IDEA

4. Veteran seafarer : OLD SALT

6. Coaches : TRAINS. This could be read two ways - either in the sports sense, or as I just noticed, rakes of coaches forming trains?

7. Acknowledge : ADMIT

8. Account exec : REP

9. Angel who replaced Jill, in '70s TV : KRIS. Charlie's Angels. Cheryl Ladd's character Kris replaced Farrah Fawcett's Jill in 1977.

11. Saturate (with) : IMBUE

12. Let off the hook : SPARE.

13. Late bloomer? : ASTER. Late summer to fall, according to the American Horticultural Society, who know about such things.

19. Bit of subterfuge : RUSE

24. Entrechat, e.g. : LEAP. Ballet trickeration.

25. Call at home : SAFE. I'm taking my visiting brother to Dodger Stadium tonight, his first ever baseball game.

27. Lover of Psyche : EROS

28. Ketch kin : YAWL. What does a third baseman from the South say when he throws to home plate? "ketch it, y'awl!". The ketch and the yawl are both two-masted vessels, the difference is that the mizzen mast on a yawl is stepped behind the rudder post, rather than in front of it.

32. Suitable : APT

35. Like many apps : FREE

36. Cop to the crime, with "up" : FESS

39. Address with an apostrophe : MA'AM

40. Smack : SLAP

46. Aloof demeanor : ICINESS. Tricky letter progression to parse.

48. "In thy dreams!" : NE'ER!

ROMEO: Did my heart love till now? Forswear it, sight, for I ne'er saw true beauty till this night.

Romeo and Juliet, Act 1, scene v 

49. Hung sign : BANNER

50. Treat badly : ABUSE

51. Zest : GUSTO. Great word!

52. Illegal firing : ARSON

54. USDA inspector's concern : E.COLI. Ick.

56. Ph.D. hurdle : DISS. Dissertation.

59. Well-versed artist? : POET

60. Deadly slitherers : ASPS. These have been rearing their heads quite a few times recently.

62. Fast-forward through : ZAP. I record most of the shows that I watch so I can zap through the ads. I watch the Premier League soccer live though; but the great thing about soccer is - no commercial breaks, except at half-time.

I think that's it from me. Heeeeere's the grid, all color-coded and everything!



fermatprime said...


Thank to Roger and Steve!

Not much food for Steve!

I object to DISS. Never heard this abbreviation. Not indicated as such either. This befuddled me and I had a FIW some red letters.

Have a great day!

OwenKL said...

No significant problem with the puzzle. The theme escaped me, however, because I was looking for a commonality between SOVIET NAVY, VAMPIRE BAT, STREET NAME, USS ARIZONA, and maybe MOUNT ETNA and/or PAMPERS! When perps filled in 34d, I saw the error of my ways without even reading that clue.

{C, C-, A-.}
Been sorting thru some old discs, and found this one just yesterday, dated 6/10/98:

~^~^~ Lunchtime ~^~^~
The high-school cafeteria
Was scented with wisteria
To mask the smell
We knew so well
Of E.COLI bacteria!

There lived near MOUNT ETNA a VAMPIRE BAT
Who kept in his cave a BREWERY VAT.
When the mountain would blast
It would heat up his mash,
Sometime streaming lava gave an extra ZAP!

If you're looking at a hole
above your shoe sole,
you're working at lacing an EYELET!

If you're basking at BEACHES
surrounded by reaches
of nothing but water, that's an islet!

If your ADMIT says to go
to a particular row
it's nice if some lights keep the aisle lit!

If you're willing to pay
in my SPARE room to stay
you'll be happy to know that I'll let!

If you're looking for STEPS
to make voters say yes,
you should read poli-sci books of aye-lit!

Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

I actually got the theme reveal early on today and that helped gt the long theme answers for a change. I love it when that happens! Not too fond of the clue for DISS, but everything else was pretty smooth. Overall, a big thumbs up for me!

And yes, it took me awhile to suss out PAMPERS as well...

desper-otto said...

Good morning!

This one came together in normal Tuesday time. Only writeover was SWAT to Splynter would say, "100% 50% correct." ZAP doesn't equate to fast-forward in my mind. Did I get the theme? You had to ask?

Street signs in my town are blue or green -- if the county put 'em up, they're green, if the city, blue. Weird.

I hate the way credit card companies and cable/satellite companies have great offers "for new accounts only." It's a rip-off of their long-term customers.

Steve, "rakes of coaches?" That's one I'd never heard.

Hahtoolah said...

Good Morning, Steve and friends. Interesting puzzle.

I misread 1-Across as Garbage Contraption instead of Garage Contraption, so I was momentarily stumped.

Illegal Firing = ARSON was my favorite clue of the puzzle.

Wings Eaters' Need real like a strange clue until I filled in enough letters to get the answer, then the Light Bulb went on.

Here is the recipe for the famous Natchitoches MEAT PIES. I have never eaten one, so I don't know if they are actually as good as the hype.

QOD: If you’re secure in yourself, and even if you’re not secure in yourself, you don’t need to bully. ~ Joan Jett (b. Sept. 22, 1958)

Hungry Mother said...

I found this easy for a Thursday puzzle. I'm glad I saved some energy for the NYT slog.

PK said...

Hi Y'all! Faster filled than yesterday. Liked the ANTE-up theme, but didn't get it until I was done. Thanks, Roger! Interesting to see Steve's colored theme entries and realize they were all ETNA eruptions. Thanks, Steve.

No towelettes from KFC here -- only grungy looking greyish brown napkins. They absorb the grease on my fingers pretty well though.

Didn't know Brooke Baldwin or her network. Perps.

Couldn't remember the character names of Jill or KRIS, but knew Cheryl & Farrah. Couldn't remember who replaced who either.
Many years ago.

Man, I'm hungry for those pork pies now.

Barry G. said...

Anonymous T: Just saw your comments from last night. Yes, my boss has said that once I settle into the new office we can discuss working from home 2 or 3 days a week. Where things get tricky is that my boss is located in Toronto and her new boss (from the company that bought us out) is based here in the new Cambridge office, and she is the one that is insisting that all formerly remote employees come into the office. So there will undoubtedly be some politics going on with no guarantees.

I understand the concept of an "Agile" environment that promotes close collaboration among team members working on a shared project with a tight deadline. I do the documentation for three different major projects, however, and none of the people I work with on these projects are in this office, so what's the benefit? Plus, I also manage a department of 8 other writers, none of whom are in this office. I need a quiet space where I can concentrate on my work and be able to talk to other people on the phone all day, not sit at a workspace with no walls and people looking over my shoulder.

My boss wanted me to go in to the office today and try things out, btw, but when I explained that I would have to come home after lunch in order to attend phone meetings (since there's no phone for me at the office), she said I should just stay home until she can get things sorted. So probably next week.

On the bright side, I was able to talk to the mother of one of my son's friends, and she said she can give him a ride to school in the mornings. So I will probably get up extra early and wake him up just before I leave the house at 6:30 to [hopefully] beat the traffic. He's old enough that he should be able to get himself ready in the morning if I make sure he at least gets up on time.

PK said...

Barry, good luck in your new situation. Office politics get in the way of good work sometimes. I walked out of my in-house writing jobs several times because of office politics. They'd wait awhile and call me to come back when things had changed for the better. Hope things get ironed out for you. I did my best writing at night without interruptions & distractions.

inanehiker said...

Creative puzzle! Since I got to the theme clue late in the game I was wondering what VAMPIRE BAT, USS ARIZONA, and PAMPERS had in common! Nothing!!

Thanks Roger and Steve!

Jinx in Norfolk said...

When I first started today I didn't think I would be able to finish without help, but I ground away until I was done. Couldn't get the theme until I came to this site - clever, and I should have found it. I too was stumped by the verb PAMPERS. Didn't know entrechat, Willamette, Brooke Baldwin or KRIS (although I watched every episode of Charlie's Angels).

Thanks to Roger for a Thursday puzzle that was well matched to my capabilities. Thanks to Steve for another good write-up.

Anonymous said...


Is a WET NAP one in which you have a wet dream?

Tinbeni said...

Steve: Very informative write-up. Good Job!

Roger: Thank You for a FUN Thursday puzzle.

I will ADMIT, this was a "PERP" workout.

Fave today was the CSO to my Gal-Pal at 9-d, KRIS.

KRIS and I are going to the NY Yankee -v- Tampa Bay Rays game tonight.

Hope everyone is enjoying their "First Day Of FALL!"

Yellowrocks said...

Fun puzzle and expo. The theme seems like one CC would choose. Pampers took a while. Oh, babies used as a verb. Neat misdirection. Easy for a Thursday.
Barry good luck with your commute. IMO when new management takes over, they tend to change everything immediately without understanding the ramifications and without asking any questions. Often they have to backtrack later.
I have had several friends who had problem moles removed without any dire consequences. I wish several of you this happy kind of experience.
I learned to write outlines using Roman numerals. When I taught we used them too. Purdue U. still recommends this style today.
Link Purdue
Happy fall. I am eagerly awaiting cooler fall temperatures this weekend.

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

62D: I don't ZAP through commercials, I ZIP through. You ZAP insects in those electric bug ZAPpers. I can't agree with the author.

63A: If Adam and Eve were the only humans on earth and they had grandchildren, I can only assume that the whole process of humanity began with incest. It's no wonder the world is on the shape it's in.

I'm free to listen to other interpretations.

TTP said...

Good puzzle. Must have been the cluing, because it seemed to take more concentration than the average Thursday.

But then again, I got distracted as I bisected the puzzle from the SW to the NE when I encountered (The) DEER HUNTER in the first minutes of the solve. "One shot." Great use of foreshadowing in that film.

I'll digress.

The Deer Hunter answer sent me off reading. A grim and STARK portrayal of the vagaries of war. I forgot about the puzzle. And I always want to associate the opening scenes of the Deer Hunter (depicted as Clairton, PA) with Donora, PA (birthplace of Griffey Sr and Jr), when in fact it is Mingo Junction, OH. De Niro was excellent. First film I saw Meryl Streep in. Minor role, but she was still nominated for an Oscar. Christopher Walken won his first.

For MEATPIE, I prefer the Yooper-made pasty. Typically beef, potato, onion, rutabaga, seasonings. Sometimes carrot. Of Cornish and Finnish beginnings. Handy for the miners.

I dislike the flashing BANNER ad (alternating "50 Years of... Great Minds...") at the Mensa website while trying to solve. Used to be able to reload the page until it was replaced with a static ad. No more. Now I just delete the Markup and make it a blank space. No more distraction.

From yesterday... Spitzboov and Misty... Best wishes they get it promptly and completely.

Husker Gary said...

-A fun theme and fill complemented by a Steve write-up full of GUSTO!
-Al Czervik kept UPPING the ANTE on Judge Smails (BTW, the Judge’s first name was Elihu)
-Those inane WETNAP instructions have a lawyer’s fingerprints on them
-Our Moon’s landscape is often called STARK
-Hawkeye rebelled against Colonel Potter’s ORDER but agreed to his request
-Automatic outlining in Word is great!
-On Ed Sullivan’s variety/TALENT show could you see a dancing bear follow a soprano’s aria
-An athletic MUFF (by definition)
-KFC does not send honey with their biscuits; it’s called honey sauce??
-Our guide’s pronunciation rubric, “It’s Will am’ ette, dammit!”
-Maybe Jiffy Lube wishes they had a LIFT this day (:19 with annoying music)
-What was then a very controversial SLAP

Husker Gary said...

Let me add my best wishes to two of our stalwarts – Misty and Spitzboov.

Avg Joe said...

Fun puzzle, but none to easy. Pampers really held me up, and never recovered any speed after that. But it all did work out.

Street signs. In Lincoln, if they are green it's a public street. Blue is used for private streets only.

TTP, my first thought on meat pie was also the Cornish Pasty. We made a quick trip to Denver a month ago and I made a point of hunting them down. Hadn't had one in nearly 40 years, but the efforts were successful and I really enjoyed it.

I'm pretty sure I'll never think of wet nap in quite the same way ever again.

I would also add good wishes for Misty and Spitzboov!

Irish Miss said...

Good Morning:

ACK! I just lost my entire post so I have to start all over!

I enjoyed this clever offering but definitely needed the reveal to see the theme. Other than "diss", a neat and nifty Thursday.

Well done, Roger, and well dissected, Steve.

DO, I agree wholeheartedly with these "special" deals ploys. When I cancelled the newspaper (after going through hell and high water to do so), I received numerous calls practically begging me to reinstate my subscription at the SPECIAL rate of just $5.50 per week. Previously, I had been paying $10.00 per week. I was (and still am) so annoyed with their tactics that I wouldn't take the paper if they offered it to me for free. (Have always been a cut-off-your-nose to spite your face kind of gal! 😈)

Barry, I hope your commute/office issues get resolved to your satisfaction. (Just the thought of having to leave the house at 6:30 am is enough to give me nightmares!)

Tin, will you flip (no offense intended) a coin to decide who to root for tonight? ⚾️

Have a great day.

desper-otto said...

Hahtoolah, the recipe for that filling reads like the America's Test Kitchen recipe for meatloaf. Sounds like it would make a pretty good pastie.

Misty and Spitz, hoping for the best outcome for both of you.

Bill G, I had no eye-deer what you were talking about.

Barry, good luck with your new office situation. My former employer was bought out twice. Each time it was new owners, new location, new culture. I can relate to the frustration you're experiencing.

xtulmkr said...

Things were looking BLEAK in the north until it became STARK, then the rest was clear.

ZIP for ZAP.

I just upgraded the receiver for my satellite service yesterday. They were going to charge me a service call plus a $100.00 equipment fee. When I refused to accept those terms, they relented and agreed to upgrade me at no additional cost. Sometimes you have to threaten to become an ex-customer to get any good customer service.

TTP said...

Barry, I'll offer my two cents. In short, give it time.

When a corporation publicly touts its presence in a market arena, and acclaims the new location as the hub of the research and deliverables, the last impression they would want to give (both externally and internally) is of insufficient staff with half-empty conference rooms and productivity centers. It's a perception thing.

My advice would be to do the dog-and-pony-show thing for a year or so. Dress smart and show up early enough to get a good spot so you can be as productive as possible in that environment. After the dust settles, and perhaps during your interim or annual reviews, broach the subject with your first line.

Limit any criticisms to objective (substantiated) facts. "Had to tie up the conference room as a single person while conducting team teleconferences with my remote team on (these dates), thereby impacting other groups needing the room." "Couldn't get a conference room scheduled on (these dates)." "Had to relinquish conference room on ..." Document if necessary, but don't dwell on them.

Your underlying goal is to persuade your manager to go to bat for you with your second line to be reclassified as a work-at-home employee; she'll need objective facts. Opinions and subjective comments from others (you've had discussions with, or overheard) will not cut it.

For the immediate term, go with the flow and play the game. Realize there's an image that needs to be made at the facility. In due time, logic should prevail and you'll be reclassified.

Dudley said...

Hello Puzzlers -

Easy enough, but hand up for being slow to notice the combined verb-and-noun usage in the clue for Pampers. I can't imagine the research it must take to come up with these theme entries!

Howdy Steve, I wish you'd have a word with the FAA. For all of their regulations, they use an outline style with a mixture of hierarchy symbols, but these are published without indentation. It's hard enough to understand the things without that extra handicap.

IM 10:06 - I'm in a similar boat. Years ago I bought Norton Antivirus for my PC, and later decided to allow automatic subscription renewals. I didn't pay enough attention to notice that the last renewal had crept up to $109 for a service that's advertised much lower. Not sure what I'm going to do about it.

Lucina said...

Hand up for BLEAK before STARK! And CSO to my state, ARIZONA, yea! Visiting that memorial in Hawaii is a sad and silent event, though.

I also liked the clues for ARSON and SPIRE, but not for DISS and was sure it would be ORAL but waited for the outcome. It was smooth sailing though almost had a Natick at SAFE/AFT until I shifted my thinking from an actual home to baseball and a funeral wake to a seaward one. Using babies as a verb was a cute misdirection and gave me pause.

What a clever theme; thank you, Roger Wienberg. Of course I didn't look for it until seeing Steve's grid.

And thank you, Steve, for your colorful and amusing review.

Last night I spoke to my sister in Charlotte and she said the main event happened quite close to her house but the riots occurred downtown which is much, much farther away.

Have a fabulous day, everyone!

Spitzboov said...

Good afternoon everyone.

Thanks to all for your support. It means a lot.

No hang-ps while apuzzling today. Although a little chunky, it was all solved w/o and searches or erasures. Liked the long downs which were mostly gotten before ANTE was run up the flag pole. Good job, Roger.
@61a - Wanted Missouri first because it was a museum ship at Pearl. But it didn't dit, the light went on and ARIZONA went in. Nice touch.
In the '50's. I believe, the USS Missouri went aground at Thimble Shoals in Hampton Roads, VA, but it wasn't BEACHEd. (Wiki reports the captain suffered the loss of 250 lineal numbers, effectively ending his career.)

Nice Cuppa said...

Why are y'all DISSing DISS?

DISS. is an abbr. of DISSERTATION. Ph.D. in the clue indicates an abbr.

The only problem is that Ph.D. candidates write (and defend) a THESIS as their final hurdle, although they might write a DISS. for a prelim. exam.

TTP said...


They are so good, aren't they ? I haven't had one for a few years now.

I'll ask my neighbor if he's getting them shipped.

He used to bring them home from a place on his annual trip to the UP (Copper Harbor, MI.)

CanadianEh! said...

I loved the theme when I saw it (like OwenKL, I was looking for commonality between the long across clues). Thanks for the fun Roger and Steve.

I was so proud of myself when I sussed out 38A "babies or what some babies wear" as ROMPERS, and even had a comment about little Prince George's outfits. My certainty over my correctness held me up in the central area until the "light bulb" IDEA of babies being in verb form! (I still think Rompers was cute!)

I had the V for VAMPIRE BAT and but NAVY at the top of 5D (that was before I got the theme).

Hand up for Zip before ZAP. I also had Buy before OWN.

Best wishes for good outcome for Misty and Spitzboov.
Barry G, I don't envy you the commute. Cheers for other parents who will help out; look at it as an independence learning experience for your son.

Happy first day of fall (although we are warm and summery today).

miss beckley said...

entrechats are jumps, not leaps. You end up in the same place you started, unlike a jete, where you travel.

Jayce said...

What inanehiker said: Creative puzzle! Very likeable. PAMPERS borders on genius. The clues for AFT and ARSON were very clever.

City street signs in Tempe, Arizona, are green while those in neighboring Chandler are brown. It helps to keep track of which town you're driving in. I forget what color the street signs are in Scottsdale, Mesa, and Gilbert.

All that talk about meat pies has "incentivized" me to go find some.

Barry G, I second TTP's advice.

Irish Miss, LW and I are with you regarding the price increases; we cancelled our newspaper subscription. I get all my news from the on-line publications these days. We would also dump our landline telephone for the same reason, but we need it for our DSL, which we're not going to give up because the alternatives (Comcast cable or wireless broadband) are so expensive. Besides, everybody hates Comcast, as much or more than everybody loves Raymond.

Best wishes to you all on this chilly equinox day.

Misty said...

I got a Thursday puzzle without a single goof-up! Yay! Wahoo!Feels great, especially since I had a lot of trouble with the top-middle box and feared I wasn't going to be able to finish. But I did--so, many thanks, Roger, for a great puzzle! And thanks for your expo, Steve. The puzzle didn't have much literature in it this morning, so it was great to get your "Romeo and Juliet" lines.

Barry G, so glad your son has a ride to school. Keep us posted on how things go--we're thinking of you.

Watched a new TV show called "The Good Place" with Ted Dansen last night, about a cranky and self-centered young woman who accidentally ends up in heaven rather than the other place. I was surprised and delighted at how colorful and zany it was. Think I'll keep watching.

Thank you all for the kind words, everybody, especially Spitzboov--I'll be thinking of you with caring and concern, and please keep us posted on how things go. Paperwork may delay my own procedure for some weeks--I'll let you know. I'm so thankful for my blog "family"!

Have a great day, everybody!

CrossEyedDave said...

Up the creepy ante?

Lucina said...

Our (RC) interpretation of the Old Testament is as a symbolic not literal readomg unless it can be historically verified. E.G. it can be historically verified that the Jews were in Egypt for decades if not centuries.

Further, it can be scientifically proven that the Earth is tens of millions of years old not 6000 as a literal interpretation would indicate. It is accepted in the Roman Catholic Church that the story of Eden is allegorical and symbolic.

Bill G. said...

Thanks Roger and Steve. Good Thursday challenging entertainment.

I ZAP things in the microwave. Otherwise; skim, scan, flip, leaf through, riffle, but never ZAP. It seems a little off. DISS looks odd too.

Years ago when Barbara and I were visiting friends in London, I hired a motorcycle in downtown London and headed west to Salisbury Plain. The trip was an adventure from the start since the Japanese motorcycle had the shift lever on the other side from my ancient BSA 500cc single. But we survived the downtown roundabouts and headed out into the beautiful countryside. We stopped at Stonehenge. In those days you could walk right into the circle of stones. Awe-inspiring! Then we headed to Salisbury cathedral. We took a tour including exploring the attic. Beautiful! It was a great adventure to wonderful places in a beautiful countryside while riding a motorcycle on the wrong side of the road.

Pat said...

This was a good Thursday workout that I needed help to finish. Hand up for ZiP/ZAP, buy/OWN. Also wanted oral/DISS. DH has played poker since he was about 5 years old so I'm familiar with UP THE ANTE. Thank you, Roger and Steve for today's enjoyment!

TTP--DH, daughter and I visited the UP one summer and spent time in Copper Harbor. That's where we went to the dump and watched idiots feeding the bears through their car windows! We also toured 2 no-longer-productive mines but I don't remember having the meat pies. I have since heard about how good they are.

It's the first day of Fall? It's 90* out, more like July!

Have a good evening.


Tinbeni said...

Irish Miss @10:06

No need to "flip-a-coin" ....
Since the NY Yankees are my favorite team ...
The Tampa Bay Rays my next favorite team ... (In the American League)

Whenever KRIS and I attend one of their games, we are always in a great mood at the end.

It is kinda funny to watch a game while rooting for both teams to score each inning.

Time to hit the road ...

Yellowrocks said...

I found no fault with zap. No nit here. One meaning is to skip over or delete (TV commercials), as by switching channels or fast-forwarding a VCR. Another similar meaning is to move swiftly; zoom: zapped into the kitchen for a snack.

Barry G. said...

Thanks for the good advice, TTP! The hardest part will be just sticking it out for "a year or so". Probably easier and less traumatic to simply look for another job with a company that doesn't have an open floor plan (at lease not for everybody). Not that I really want to do that.

It's an odd situation. My direct manager is very high in the company that just got bought. In fact, she reports directly to the person heading up the entire division for which this new office building was built in the first place. My manager lobbied to have me work at home (or so she claims), but her boss was the one who decided the new office should have an open floor plan and wants everybody to come in and be "collaborative." So I'm not sure anything is going to change unless the big boss eventually realizes the entire idea was a mistake and decides to reconfigure the entire office (which isn't likely to happen). At best, it looks like I will eventually be able to work from home 1 or 2 days a week. In the meantime, I'm hoping that if I can get into the office by 7:30 by getting up and out early, I can also get away with leaving at 3:30 and get home at a reasonable time.

Ol' Man Keith said...

What a beautifully proportioned structure--in Salisbury Cathedral! So many of the great religious buildings seem perfect to our modern eyes, even though they were often the result of several generations of builders working over centuries, adding on entire chapels and wings as their aesthetic and spiritual aims meshed. I suppose part of our appreciation stems from familiarity. We grew up with these immense statements already firmly in place, so could it be that acceptance preceded judgment?

Mmm. I remember those meat pies. Thanks for posting the link, Steve. I haven't tasted one in over thirty years, but now that I'm reminded, maybe I can hunt one down. They're apparently not available for shipping, as they must be truly fresh.

Anonymous said...

"Account exec is a REP? When did a salesman become an executive? How 'bout CFO (or at least CPA)?

Ol' Man Keith said...

Regarding the incest theme (see Magilla Go-Rilla @9:46), I thought it was taken for granted that we all began with forms of incest, from siblings to cousins. Nowadays the taboo is supported with genetic evidence, but this is a fairly recent wrinkle in social and biological norms. Even Darwin married a first cousin.
From a mytho-historical perspective incest in Eden is an easy assumption. So many cultures work it openly into their origin stories, and in some classical cultures it was reserved for royalty. These days Game of Thrones is popularizing it as a theme, although tellingly reserved for the villainous Lannisters.

Avg Joe said...

Speaking of meat pies......we were speaking of meat pies, weren't we? For people of a certain age (I.e. getting on towards old) pot pies were once the secret to an inexpensive existence since Ramen hadn't yet been introduced to the masses in the US. You could buy Swanson pot pies for .25 to .50 any day of the week,, and they were delicious......maybe a bit heavy on the salt. But nonetheless tasty and satisfying. 2 of them and you were good. These days they taste like the contents of an art class paste pot, and probably have an equal nutritional value. Marie Callander has a pretty good offering currently, but it's no longer CHEAP! I guess you just can't return to the days of yore. Sigh!

Barry, I'd add one minor piece of advice to that already given. Corporate monitoring of social media exploits is such these days that I'd be very cautious of making things too public. Big Brother probably is watching. Just sayin.

Lemonade714 said...

Fun puzzle; fun write up.

Jill and Kris Munroe were the blonde Angels. Did you know there is a wiki dedicated to the angels, where you can read about KRIS and her big sister JILL

Yankees have made a nice run at the playoffs after dumping their closers; odd.

AnonymousPVX said...

Clever, mostly well-clued, a couple of nits.

"DISS" - really? And "ZAP" as well, both seemed a stretch.

Yellowrocks said...

I loved the MEAT PIES in Scotland, both bridies and pasties, with their crisply baked dough and savory filling. We used to buy them early in the morning and pack them along on hikes for lunch. I am so disappointed in what is sold as Scottish pasties in delis here. The dough is soft and steamed. They are wrapped in foil and kept warm. Today I found a shop where maybe I can get a crisp pastie. I will try it next week.

Ol' Man Keith said...

YR, Good luck! Let us know if the shop comes through for you. I'd love to find one in my SoCal neighborhood.

Avg Joe said...

I understand that no one asked. And also understand that we have no apparent Denver participants. But just in case there are lurkers out there living in or near Denver that care, here goes with a shameless plug for good food. The Pasty Republic located at 4166 Tennyson St, Wheatridge, CO is the place I spoke of earlier. The real deal, and delicious. Not cheap, but reasonable. As you were.

TTP said...

Pat, how nice ! Except for the bear feeding bit. I wonder what people think sometimes. "Oh, those black bears are so cute. Let's feed them !"

Joe, et al, my neighbor just responded....

They bought pasties at the Tony's referenced in: this story in Laurium / Calumet.

They can be ordered here

Abejo said...

Well, let me start again. I began writing several minutes ago and then it got blown away. I am on the IPad.

Good evening folks. Thank you, Roger Wienberg, for a fine puzzle. Thank you, Steve, for a fine review.

Puzzle seemed easier to me than most Thursdays. Theme was fine and clever.

I had no problem with DISS for dissertation. Made sense.

Thought 68A SPIRE for sky scraper was a good one. Good shot of that cathedral, Steve.

Tried DANGER for 49D. BANNER won that battle.

I think the Russian Navy is still patrolling that area, or is trying to.

I guess I was not aware the ARIZONA was a battleship. Live and learn.

I have never had a Scottish MEAT PIE. Sounds like I have missed a treat.

I will sign off for now. I am on Amtrak heading to Pittsburgh, then I take a bus to the airport, then I catch a plane (single engine) to Bradford, then I catch a ride to Johnsonburg. Phew. My wife's high school reunion is this weekend, but she cannot go. Since I am on the Committee for her reunion, I am going.

See you tomorrow.

( )

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

I agree that all those biblical stories are symbolic or parables as they were called. But after 12 years of catholic school having the stories drummed into us as "fact" has made me a bit cynical. I still fail to get what's behind the Noah's Ark story. Of course it was not possible to collect a pair of every species and put them on the same boat. How do you control them and feed them and clean up after them. Yet every few years someone claims to have discovered the ark. And then the story dies right there. I might sound like an atheist but I'm the furthest thing from that. But I do have questions forcing me to make light of some teachings.

CrossEyedDave said...

All this talk of meat pies reminds me of Mrs Lovett's.

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

Try some priest��

Noah's Wife said...

Migalla: go back and re-read the story of Noah in Genesis. You will find that there are two stories - one where there are two of each animal and a second version where there are 7 pair of clean animals and 1 pair of animals that are not clean.

MJ said...

Greetings to all!

Didn't get up in time to do the puzzle before work today, so late to the party. Found the theme to be very clever and well executed. Thanks, Roger. Especially liked the clues "It's often a stretch" for LIMO and "Well-versed artist?" for POET.

CanadianEh!, I also had roMPERS before PAMPERS, but SOVIETNoVY fixed that.

Barry, hoping for the best possible solution for you when the dust settles.

Misty and Spitz, thoughts and prayers going your way.

Thanks for your usual great expo, Steve.


Avg Joe said...

Great discussion about meat pies. Glad to know the tradition is alive in the UP, TTP? And just to be clear about the earlier comment regarding pot pies....they're in no way similar....just have similar nomenclature.

OTOH, other discussions seem a bit too close to the line on the forbidden. Do we need to go there?

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

Mrs. Noah:
In 12 years of catholic school during the 40's and 50's I never heard that second version you mention. Not in religion classes nor anyplace else. Did someone rewrite the Bible since then? I don't mean to be caustic but I can't put much stock (no pun intended) in either version. But thanks for sharing. I certainly will investigate the 7 and 1 theory.

I just noticed that we are not to have religious discussions. I apologize and will discontinue this discussion.

Anonymous said...

Thank God !

Argyle said...


Barry G. said...

Corporate monitoring of social media exploits is such these days that I'd be very cautious of making things too public. Big Brother probably is watching. Just sayin.

Ayup! That's why I purposely haven't mentioned the name of the company I now work for (today, at least) and I certainly haven't talked about this anywhere else. I figure a crossword puzzle blog is pretty obscure... ^_^