google.com, pub-2774194725043577, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0 L.A.Times Crossword Corner: Thursday July 13 2017 Bruce Haight

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Jul 13, 2017

Thursday July 13 2017 Bruce Haight

Theme: Horse Play - the four theme entries are equine-related homophonic, or near-homophonic phrases.

17A. Arabian's head covering? : BRIDLE VEIL. Bridal veil. Arabian in the horse breed sense.

26A. Mounting problem at Churchill Downs? : STIRRUP TROUBLE. Stir up trouble.

42A. Something well in hand at Waterloo? : REIN OF NAPOLEON. Reign of Napoleon.

55A. Feature of 50-Down? : HORSE VOICE. Hoarse voice.

and ..

50D. '60s TV personality who would especially enjoy this puzzle : MR. ED



A straightforward-enough punning theme from Bruce with the character reveal tucked away neatly at the bottom of the puzzle.

I'm not sure if I'm bothered or not by STIRRUP TROUBLE - it's certainly an outlier from the other three homophone theme entries, both by not being a homophone and the original phrase having three words, not two.

Not a deal-breaker though, so let's see what else we've got:

Across

1. Unit of heat energy : THERM

6. Like wild boar meat : GAMY and  54. Like wild boar meat : LEAN. Nice clecho.

10. Rock-in-pond sound : PLOP. More like a pebble sound. I think a rock would make more of a KA-BLOOSH sound.

14. Bit part : CAMEO. Konstantine Stanislavsky, the great character actor and theatrical director remarked "there are no small parts, only small actors".

15. Matty of baseball : ALOU. Talented family, those Alous.

16. Most Rembrandts : OILS. Here's one that's not - "Self-portrait, Staring". Aptly titled!



19. "Concord Sonata" composer : IVES. Thank you, crosses. Charles Ives composed what is officially titled Piano Sonata No. 2 "Concord, Mass., 1840-1860". I tried listening to it but gave up after a couple of minutes, it's not my cup of tea.

20. Nevertheless : YET

21. Cools quickly : ICES

22. Physicist Rutherford : ERNEST. His research led to the first atom-splitting by nuclear reaction in 1917.

24. Arequipa's land : PERU. Second most populous city in the country.

25. Pats dry : BLOTS

31. Film that's barely shown? : NUDIE. As a side-theme note, Nudie Cohn was the original "Rhinestone Cowboy" known for his flamboyant clothing design (and custom car design too).


32. Carry on : WAGE

33. 2008 TARP beneficiary : AIG

35. Bit that can be split : ATOM. Rutherford from 22A figured this out.

36. Luges, e.g. : SLEDS

38. Attracted : DREW

39. Sci-fi vehicle : POD

40. Midwestern tribe : OTOE

41. Prairie wanderer : DOGIE. A calf separated from its mother.

46. Stole (in) : CREPT

47. Track piece : RAIL

48. "Wait, start again, please" : I'M LOST. As the dogie said to the cowpoke.

50. Track event : MILE. I like that the mile race is still run even though the other race distances with the exception of the marathon are all metric.

51. Horned viper : ASP

58. Bollywood garment : SARI

59. Help in a bad way : ABET

60. Triage MD : E.R. DOC. Ouch. Least favorite fill of the day.

61. Writer Waugh : ALEC. Elder brother of the better-known Evelyn Waugh. He was a prolific writer, but according to his nephew Auberon "[he] wrote many books, each worse than the last". Tough crowd.

62. Bustle : TO DO

63. Symbols among notes : RESTS

Down

1. Frozen dessert chain : TCBY "The Country's Best Yogurt".

2. Overconfident fable critter : HARE. Beaten by the tortoise.

3. Throw off : EMIT

4. White alternative : RED. Vino.

5. "Le Misanthrope" playwright : MOLIERE

6. Allowed from the mound : GAVE UP. Baseball nomenclature - the pitcher gives up a hit or a run.

7. See 45-Down : ALES.

8. "You think I did it?!" : MOI? Accompanied by innocent eyebrow raising.

9. Christmas cracklers : YULE LOGS

10. Destination in a simple itinerary : POINT B. Early Google Maps didn't always give you quite the correct route.



11. Has extravagant ways : LIVES LARGE

12. Fútbol cheers : OLÉS

13. Attractive sound? : PSST! Attention-attracter.

18. Lampshade shade : ECRU

23. Cad : ROUÉ

24. Stuffy : PRIM

25. "Ratatouille" director Bird : BRAD. More crosses, thank you.

26. Word with brim or bean : SNAP. I'd never heard of a snap bean until today. Live and learn.

27. Coach : TUTOR

28. "My word!" : I DO DECLARE!

29. Many a Belieber : TWEEN. Generally agreed to be the pre-teen years between 10 and 12 when your children start to hate you.

30. Refrain from singing as a child? : EIEIO. Old McDonald and his noisy farm.

34. Singer Stefani : GWEN. She recorded a great remake of Talk Talk's 1984 hit It's My Life

36. "Enough!" : STOP THAT!

37. Room at the top : LOFT

38. Kid's tea party attendee : DOLL

40. Singles : ONES

41. "You bet!" : DO I EVER

43. Like much humor : IRONIC

44. Blue blood, for short : ARISTO

45. With 7-Down, bitter brews : PALE. It's the hops in the ale that gives it the bitter note.

48. "Play it once, Sam" speaker : ILSA

49. Spread, maybe : MEAL

51. Supports : AIDS. We have both aid and abet today.

52. Macbeth or Macduff : SCOT. Aye.

53. Muscle Beach display : PECS

56. "That price is negotiable," in ads : OBO

57. Vein output : ORE

I think we just need a grid and a by-line and we're done, so here they are:

Steve



44 comments:

fermatprime said...

Greetings!

Thanks, Bruce and Steve!

Amusing puzzle.

BRAD and AIG were perped. Otherwise pretty easy.

Really tired! Time to sleep, with luck!

Have a great day!

Dudley said...

Hello Puzzlers -

Zipped right through, despite having to use the LA Times site. Cruciverb is still out to lunch. Agreed that Stirrup Trouble is a bit of an outlier within the theme, but it's too much fun to pass up.

Lucina and others from yesterday: thanks for missing me. I don't seem to find the time to post as much these days, plus I find I can't think up new ways to remark on puzzle-solving.

Morning, Steve, nicely done.

For you beer fans: For quite a few years we benefited from the microbrewery revolution. Lots of interesting styles showed up on the market, presenting all manner of options for a variety of tastes. Nowadays, however, it's all about extreme hoppy styles, which I find horrible. Gone is the wide variety, replaced by one-upmanship in bitterness. A local microbrewer was seen sporting a shirt reading "Lupulin Threshold Shift", the meaning of which had to be explained to me: apparently hops are lupulins, and apparently humans have been gradually de-sensitizing to the level of hops in beer, to the point where extreme hopping is necessary to satisfy those who like such ales. What a disappointment! I hope the market eventually swings away from such madness.

thehondohurricane said...

Once STIRRUP TROUBLE appeared I had an idea of today's theme and the clue/fill did nor bother me at all. But the REIN OF NAPOLEAN did. I seem, to recall "Nappy" got his ass kicked at Waterloo, so "well in hand" must be referring to a body part of his he was holding.

Lots of names I never heard of.....Concord Composer, Rutherford, Ratatouille director, etc., etc. Perps gave me enough of a head start to make a WAG, but lots of luck involved too.

Fortunately I looked at my calendar yesterday and realized my Cat Scan was today. So a reprieve before having to drink that @@%*% tasting prep liquid.

OwenKL said...

DNF¡ The SW corner defeated me. I had RICK for the longest time, and even when I gave that up, I couldn't think of ILSA. The only Waugh I knew was Evelyn. I didn't think of IRONIC humor as being particularly common, tho I guess it is. And several others in the area I just didn't have enough perps to bring to mind. Running late again, so only time for one now.
{C+.}

There was a PRIM prude from PERU
To STOP vice, thought here's what TO DO:
She said, "It's my duty
In films that are NUDIE,
To paint my whole body ECRU!"

desper-otto said...

Good morning!

Nice job, Bruce. Steve/Dudley, folks in the Midwest pronounce STIRRUP differently...a pretty good match with "stir up." MEET gave way to MILE, my first writeover. Without recognizing the theme (naturally), HORSE SENSE went in before VOICE became obvious. Wite-Out works wonders.

Steve, is that really their slogan? I thought it was "This Can't Be Yogurt," honestly.

PK said...

Hi Y'all! Hondo, I thought it meant Napoleon was on horse back and had the REINs well in hand at Waterloo. LOL! Have a good scan.

This was an easy theme to figure out. Thanks, Bruce, for a gettable Thursday. Thanks, Steve, for taking the REINs on this.

NUDIE is tempting in this hot weather. Have to pass too many mirrors in my house to actually do it. Horrors.

BRIDLEVEIL seemed more off than the STIRRUP TROUBLE to me. BRIDLE okay. VEIL on a horse, meh!

TTP said...


Good morning. Thanks Bruce. Thanks Steve.

Now that was an odd solve for me. Started a bit slower than I feel would be normal for a Thursday, then really had to slow down and think, like it was a Saturday, and then poof, it finished like a Monday.

I'm going to call a solver friend and make sure she knows about this one. She loves all things equestrian. She'll get a kick out of this puzzle, just as I did.

Jinx in Norfolk said...

I wanted to teach before I wanted to TUTOR. Hand up for meet before MILE, rick before ILSA, and ufo before POD. Same unknowns as Hondo. Didn't know any of the Waughs, so my one cheat was there.

My favorite today was "refrain from singing as a child" for EIEIO. I please easily.

Thanks Bruce for a fun puzzle, and to Steve for your usual fine tour.

thehondohurricane said...


PK.. Your interpretation makes more sense then mine. I never liked Nappy, so I just jumped without much thought.

Liked your idea about "beating the heat." My beloved would have same comments.....unfortunately.

Lemonade714 said...

Bruce returns after a brief hiatus with a very fun puzzle.

Where I was raised stir up and stirrup sound alike so that was no problem. I did not know ERNEST RUTHERFORD but he was an amazing man. Sheldon would be jealous.

There continues to be a wide variety of creativity in the beer industry with fruit infusions as common as extra bitter triple IPAs. While I am not a beer drinker, my eldest is a regional manager for a distributor and my youngest has worked for breweries and helped create new flavors.

I think a veil might be a replacement for the blinders horses wear.

Spitzboov said...

Good Morning Everyone.

No NEIGH-saying on this one. Fun, delightful, and punny in a good way.
Went through the NW like s*** thru a goose, but then ran hard aground for a while. But the early theme presentation helped.

Restarted at the bottom and SW and step-toed back up to the NE and, voilà, it was done. Remembered AIG from the 2008 economic flap. Wanted bison for prairie wanderer, but utterly did not fit. But EIEIO and DOLL to the rescue, so DOGIE it became. Still not sure what OBO means "offer by owner?", but perps were firm.
ER DOC - Had to deal with ER last Sat. night when BH had bowel blockage symptoms. Good doctors and an Endoscopy check and she returned home yesterday. A little tired, so I get to chauffeur her to the hair dresser today.
(On a separate matter, my sister is a retired EM DOC )

Irish Miss said...

Good Morning:

Another enjoyable solve from Mr. Bruce. Any hiccups were remedied by perps. The only "ouch", as Steve noted, was ER Doc.

Thanks, Bruce, for a Thursday treat and thanks, Steve, for guiding us along.

The 3 H's are here today in full force! ACK,

have a great day.


Husker Gary said...

Musings
-What a delightful struggle! I was trying to think of a 60’s TV character that specialized in puns instead of an equine.
-Today this physics teacher learned that a THERM is 100,000 BTU’s
-All physics teachers have taught the Rutherford, planetary ATOM model
-I can’t make ICED coffee. I am thinking of buying this (1:43) that chills 130 ˚F in 60 sec.
-The METS drew big crowds to their minor-league teams by drafting Tim Tebow
-I guess it’s not a UFO if we can see it is a POD
-Some track coaches still refer to the 1,600 meter race as the MILE even though the mile is about 10 yds longer
-My child not singing was first MOUTHING the words
-FORE!

CanadianEh! said...

Some crunch today but it is Thursday. Thanks for the fun Bruce and Steve.
I did require some red letter help.

Hand up for UFO before POD and knowing Evelyn but not ALEC Waugh.
AIG was all perps because I did not know TARP but I remembered the 2008 crisis.
POINT A changed to B when I realized it was the destination not the start.
I've heard of SNAP beans but not Snap brim.

Did we not have a discussion recently about MR ED vs Mister Ed? I think the TV abbreviation allows for the MR.

Spitz - I smiled at your NEIGH-saying. I think OBO means Or Best Offer.

Enjoy the day. We are getting some needed rain here.

Unknown said...

Make the coffee the night before and
refrigerate overnight.

Anonymous said...

@9:18. So Spitz ran hard aground. Must have stepped in the goose s***.

Argyle said...

"Make the coffee the night before and refrigerate overnight."
Add some to an ice cube tray too and freeze. Cold longer and no dilution.

Spitzboov said...

Canadian Eh! - Thanks for the OBO clarification - makes more sense.
THERM - A gimme because it's always in our gas bill. 100,000 cu.ft. of nat. gas averages about 1.037 therms. My last gas bill was invoiced at 1.028 therms/ccf.

Bruce Haight said...

Thanks Steve! I was never worried about STIRRUP TROUBLE because that one is so entertaining. However, I was worried about Rich accepting REIN OF NAPOLEON, and I just had to look it up again because Napolean looks pretty darn good to me........Bruce Haight

C6D6 Peg said...

Thanks, Bruce, for a fun puzzle this morning. Loved "STIRRUPTROUBLE" the best. Cute theme.

Thanks,Steve, for the great write-up. But you didn't add "FOOD!" to the wild boar meat..... only one in the puzzle. LOL

CrossEyedDave said...

Re: yesterday,
Did the puzzle with no problems,
but was totally stupefied on how to link something silly that was in context...
Congratulations Gary/CC, you stumped me...

Re:Today,
Ouch!, Totally on a different wavelength.
Right from the get go, unit of heat energy:never got past BTU
6a My gamey has an E.
31a film that's barely shown=nudie (Nudie? I dunno, I wasn't allowed to watch these...)
60A Triage Doc is not medic? (sigh, all those M*A*S*H* episodes...)
26d word with brim or bean, still trying to digest this one.
plus, how the heck did they get those top hats to fold and pop up?
Seems to be a trade secret...

Anywho, there are lots of other examples of my being out of tune.
However, there were two that fit like a glove. 6a gave up (even tho I really hated the clue) & 63a quit complaining and give it a .....

Madame Defarge said...

Good Morning,

After doing Tuesday and Wednesday puzzles, I finally got around to today. A crossword binge is kind of fun!

At this point, WES. Thanks Bruce. Another nice tour Steve. Thank you.

Off to help a dear friend with sorting water-damaged boxes after yesterday's heavy rains. Basements provide nice out-of-way storage, but they also allow us to keep too much. She may not be happy with me--I've been in purge mode for almost a year now. ;-)

Have a sunny dry day today!

MJ said...

Good day to all!

A fun horse-themed puzzle from Bruce. Unknowns were BRAD Bird, ERNEST Rutherford, and AIG, but the perps were friendly. Favorite clue/answer was "Refrain from singing as a child?" Thanks for the tour, Steve. Sorry the only food you got today was LEAN and GAMY.

Husker--I watched the video that you linked about the HyperChiller for iced coffee. Have you tried cold brew concentrates? Here is an article that you might find interesting/helpful. Cold Brew Coffee

Enjoy the day!

Misty said...

Great Thursday puzzle, Bruce--lots of crunch but still doable. I actually got the whole thing without any cheating--yay! And thank you for stopping by. Always great write-up, Steve, thanks for that too. I'm so glad I got MR ED and HORSE VOICE early--that gave me the theme and helped with the tougher items.

Off to the dentist in a half hour, and then have to deal with some other issues--so a busy, and not very fun, day ahead.

Have a good one, everybody!

Magilla Go-Rilla said...

26D; I HAVE heard of snap beans. What's a snap brim?

Lucina said...

I can't believe it's so late, but forward and onward!

Thank you, Bruce, for this lively stomp. The western hemisphere gave up its secrets early on. ILSA and ALEC Waugh are both familiar to me. How many times have I watched Casablanca? At least once a year. I studied Evelyn but only knew of his brother. Both embraced dark themes.

In the eastern hemisphere, things developed slowly and I finally checked on Mr. Rutherford. The only one familiar to me is Hayes so ERNEST is my learning moment today. POINTB brought me a flying V-8 dent when I saw it! And I immediately thought of EIEIO but somehow the clue didn't jive. It finally went in as did NAPOLEON then the rest just fell in place. I gave myself a huge TA-DA! when it was done.

Well done, Bruce Haight and Steve!

Dudley:
I'm so glad you decided to play today. Please know that whatever you comment on the puzzle is appreciated. For me, all posts add some depth to my understanding of the day's grid.

Have a fabulous day, everyone!

Unknown said...

A hat.

CanadianEh! said...

CED - I too wanted the E in GAMY (apparently Gamey is an alternate spelling).

Magilla Go-rilla - I had never heard of Snap BRIM either but I Googled it and discovered that Merriam-Webster defines it as "a usually felt hat with brim turned up in back and down in front and with a dented crown". Apparently it is stored "up" all the way around (curved gently upward, not flat), and to wear the brim down in front or back, it can be "snapped" down by hand. Then, you snap it back up when you put it away. Learning moment for the day!

Madame DeFarge - I don't envy you the sorting/purge job, especially if your friend is a "saver".

Misty - Thoughts and best wishes on your unpleasant-sounding day! I hope it turns out to be better than expected.

Bill G said...

Hi everybody.

In an effort to answer what seems to be a couple of points of confusion...

The vegetable commonly known as green beans also goes by snap beans. When you pick them, they are about five inches long and crisp. To make them a more manageable size to eat, before cooking, you break them (snap them) in half or thirds. Hence the name snap beans.

In the 40s. men wore hats like women wore gloves. The most common kind of hat was called a snap-brim fedora. The front part of the brim could be bent down. It would snap into place and stay bent down as a matter of style. Imagine the style of hat often worn by Dick Tracy or Humphrey Bogart. My father wore one all the time (ourdoors) when I was young.

Unknown said...

I remember from pictures my dad's snap brim hat he wore in the thirties. He still had one in the late 50's and he could actually still SNAP it. Bogey wore one in a few of his movies.
eieio was my last fill. I couldn't wrap my mind around the second meaning of "Refrain".

20th day of the year with temps above 90 here in southern California a mere 11 miles from the Pacific. TG for Carrier and the Carnot cycle ! Couldn't be man made global warming...the brilliant senator from Oklahoma proved that was a hoax since he had a snowball !!!

Unknown said...

sorry Bill...I was typing while you were posting ! hats off to our dads and their snappy snap brim hats.

AnonymousPVX said...

A bit of a crunch for me in this Thursday outing, but no complaints.

VirginiaSycamore said...

Thanks to Bruce for a funny, punny, and meaty Thursday puzzle. Also to Steve for the explanations.

WES, but I will add my 2 cents on Alec Waugh. His first novel, The Loom of Youth, got notoriety because it inferred homosexual relations at the school, based on Sherborne School.

As his article in Wikipedia says: "The Loom of Youth was so controversial at the time (it mentioned homosexual relationships between boys, albeit in a very understated, staid fashion) that Waugh remains the only former pupil to be dismissed from the former students society (The Old Shirburnian Society). It was also a best seller.[2]"

Alec Waugh's novel, Island in the Sun, was made into a successful 1955 movie with Harry Belafonte singing the title track.

Live Well and Prosper
VS

Ol' Man Keith said...

Ta-DA!!
No cheats, no lookups, just plain doggedness. Definitely a crunchy chew offered by Mr. Haight, but worth it to reach a final "Aaahhh..."

Funny, though: I'm the only person I know who observes the YULE LOGS tradition, and yet 9D was the fill that had me stuck the longest. "Christmas cracklers" doesn't exactly bring them to mind.
The cluing for REI(g)N OF NAPOLEON seemed strange to me. I'm with HondoHurricane (before his conversion) in thinking Nappy's "defeat" to be the likelier "Something well in hand at Waterloo."
The notion that the clue may refer to the literal gripping of the reins by the emperor as he high-tailed his retreat seems flimsy to me. He would have held the reins strongly in victory too, and in any case his reins probably weren't in hand any more firmly than those of any other mounted officer. Just ask (ahem) the Duke of Wellington and Geb von Blücher.

Jayce said...

I liked this puzzle and smiled at STIRRUP TROUBLE. Fave clue is to EIEIO. Took me a dictionary lookup to understand "Bustle" as a clue for TO DO. I had a really cute ER DOC several years ago; made me feel good when I told her I liked her and she said she liked me too (yeah, I know, good professional bedside manner). It's like when the medical technician stuck the needle in me to draw blood he said, "Are we still friends?" (I said yes.)

I much prefer a malty ale, such as Newcastle Brown or the Belgian Abbeys, over a hoppy ale.

Best wishes to you all.

CrossEyedDave said...

One of the things that totally threw me was 9d, Christmas Cracklers...

Obviously our constructionist has must have some English background
to know of the misdirection of Christmas Crackers.
However, my search of how to's revealed some very lame, underpowered
of party poppers with trinkets inside. (I won't bore you with the videos...)

What I remember as a kid was those Champagne poppers with streamers!

Better yet! Don't just play with them, Experiment!

Hmm, I dunno, maybe with an M80, or perhaps a 1/4 stick of dynamite...

Misty said...

Thank you, CanadianEh! Things actually did turn out better than expected. The dentist x-rayed teeth, and found they were all just fine. And I think (hope) that the bank problem has been resolved. So am feeling much better this afternoon than this morning. Hope you had a really good day too!

Anonymous T said...

Hi All!

Whoot! Got a Bruce Haight puzzle w/ only 1 lookup (and turns out I didn't need it - drat!!).

Thanks Bruce - I enjoyed the (helpful) theme which I got as soon as BRID-E filled [yes, I hopped around the puzzle a lot :-)]. Thanks too for stopping by; I too liked STIRRUP TROUBLE. Steve, great expo as usual; early GoogleMap was funny. So what's the other way to say 'stir up?'

Solve started slowly - HARE stood alone in the NW, while I PLOP'd in everything in the NE with LIVES LARGE aiding in the E... Though I was stuck on AIG 'cuz I was thinking GM (AMC?). Got OBO, PECS, ASP, ORE, ERDOC, AIDS. Jump'd back to the NW when, filling CAMEO, TCBY dawned on me - Duh, THERM not calor[i]e(?) finishing the NW, back to the South and MR ED lead to HORSE... [TMI?]

Finally, stuck in the SW (only had SARI) I looked up ILSA; no help. I WAG'd and E on 5d, and got -U-IE. NUDIE, SNAP, ATOP, POD, I DO DECLARE I'm a fill or two from done. Finished and looked up - two more squares; W-G- xing ROU- and BR-D. WAG'd 'em right. [Did I just prove Lucina wrong -- that not all posts add depth :-) ] Thanks Steve for showing ROUE [never heard it] is French!

WO: Meet b/f MILE
ESPs: BRAD, ROUE, and ILSA (should'a been one).

Fav: PALE ALE; pairs well with GAM[e?]Y LEAN Boar.

{A+ }

Hondo & Misty - hope all went well with the procedures today. [and glad to read Misty's did (and I remembered to refresh!)]

Dudley - I like Hoppy IPAs but the ABV keeps me on Corona when I'm out for dinner or in the garden.

Beer and Coffee talk today? How about Coffee Beer!

Cheers, -T

CrossEyedDave said...

Speaking of horsing around...

Hey Spitzboov!

This is why they won't let me steer the ship anymore...

Anonymous T said...

CED - What were you thinking? Doing donuts w/ the USS Lincoln? [Damn, that was cool - I assume it was testing as there were no planes on deck].

Read you in the AM Picard. -T

Lucina said...

AnonT:
Sorry, my friend, you're wrong. If nothing else you always teach me bits about beer, a subject of which I'm completely ignorant.

Wilbur Charles said...

Wilbur here. , after my HORSE has left the barn. I said a lot yesterday but my posts disappeared before I could publish.

Thanks Bruce for the QOD

Laughed at your C+ Owen

WC

Wilbur Charles said...

Testing

Picard said...

Fun puzzle! I enjoyed MR ED as a kid!

Thanks Husker Gary for explaining THERM. This physics guy has seen this unit on his gas bill, but never in physics. Glad to know you are a fellow physics guy! Real physics guys use joules, not those damned English units! We don't measure speed in furlongs per fortnight.

Of course ERNEST was a gimme for us physics people.

Hand up for never having heard of SNAP beans nor SNAP brims.

Unknowns: GWEN, SCOT

Thanks, Steve, for explaining DOGIE. Heard it in that Western song and never knew what it meant.

Does TCBY still exist? Is it regional? We did have it here in CA for awhile.