Jul 18, 2013

Thursday, July 18, 2013 Julian Lim

Theme: "You asked for it, you got it." Ear worm, but hilarious scene from "Forget Paris." 1:10

And that brings us to the unifier today:

54A. Ignore warnings, say...and a hint to the last words of the answers to starred clues : ASK FOR IT.

17A. *"Press Your Luck" contestant's cry : BIG MONEY. Never watched the show, so this was my first glitch. But looking it up, I think they usually say "big bucks"??? Did you ever have to ask for money from your friends?

19A. *What sputtering might indicate : ENGINE TROUBLE. Or, or, or, trouble?? ("Honest, honey, uh, uh, er, er, I was with the guys playing poker all night!") I bet more than one of you has asked for trouble in your life!

34A. *Aid for the short? : DEBT FORGIVENESS. Because "stilts" was too short. After the husband stays out all night "playing poker," he will probably have to ask for forgiveness.

47A. *Glee club on "Glee" : NEW DIRECTIONS. Would you believe, I actually knew this one? William McKinley High glee club. (No, I am not a gleek!!) OK, show of hands: how many guys out there have actually stopped and asked for directions?

Interesting grid design, with two pair of themers overlapped.  Nice work, and wow, two weeks in a row I get an interesting interview with the constructor. So thanks, C.C.!! 


1. Israel's Barak : EHUD. Oh-oh, trouble right off the bat.

5. Half an S-curve : ZAG. "ZiG" got me into more trouble.

8. Carol beginning : ADESTE. Ok, I got this one!

14. Honeymooner's island destination : BORA BORA.

16. Juice for Zeus : NECTAR.

18. Bronx-to-Coney Island subway : D TRAIN. Not the A-Train? 6:08

21. Dr.'s specialty : ENTEar, Nose and Throat

22. Not just centuries : EONS.

23. Big name in smooth jazz : KENNY G. Really smooth.

27. ___ Nui: Easter Island : RAPA.

28. Netherlands carrier : KLM. Oops, filled in "SAS" too soon!

31. Melville novel : OMOO.

32. Card for tomorrow? : TAROT. Nice clue for "foreseeing" the future with TAROT cards.

33. Big Apple sch. : NYUNew York University.

38. Chase Field team, on scoreboards : ARI.zona. Hi Lucina!

39. Betelgeuse's constellation : ORION.

40. Plenty : A LOT. "Tons" would also fit...just sayin'!!

41. "The Spanish Tragedy" playwright Thomas : KYD. No idea about this guy. I bet Yellowrocks knows him!

42. Nippon noodle : UDON. C.C., I think they have these in China, also? Except they are called  (wūdōngmiàn), correct? I remember you once ate only rice for an entire month. Maybe UDON noodles would have been a welcome change! (From C.C.: Udon is distinctively Japanese. wūdōngmiàn is just Chinese translation of "Udon noodle". Mian (Mandarin) & Mein (Cantonese, as in Lo Mien) both mean "Noodle". Chinese has a similar style thick noodle, but it has no flavorful broth as Udon. Seafood Udon is heaven!)

43. Immunity agents : T-CELLS. A gimme, for me.

45. Vermeer's "Girl With ___ Hat" : A RED. Vermeer liked to title his works as "Girl With...," like "Girl With a Pearl Earring," etc. Not to be confused with "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo."

46. Sale abbr. : IRR.egular.

53. San ___, Argentina : ISIDRO. Oops -  I spelled it "ySIDRO" at first, until I realized that "NyBS" was probably not the correct spelling.

57. "Father of American Universalism" Hosea ___ : BALLOU. Why the "___" in the clue???

58. Close way to fight : TOE TO TOE.

59. Mum : SILENT.

60. Dash lengths : ENS. EM-dashes are double the width of EN-dashes. Can you guess why?

61. "Critique of Pure Reason" philosopher : KANT. Nailed it!

Ouch - power went out twice already. Must be all the ACs running overtime today. Mid-nineties, and humid here. Ugh!  So I will make the rest brief, and fill in later if I still have power!


1. Diminish : EBB.

2. ___ polloi : HOI.

3. Drive : URGE.

4. Denounce : DAMN.

5. Urban planner's concern : ZONING.

6. "___ you clever!" : AREN'T.

7. "Mercy Mercy Me" singer : GAYE. Great song. About the environment, not about asking for FORGIVENESS!

8. Longest-serving KGB chairman (1967-'82) : ANDROPOV. Huh? Who? (All perps!)

9. Go boom : DETONATE. Loved the clue!

10. Neutral paint colors : ECRUS.

11. Wild guess : STAB.

12. Shadow : TAIL.

13. Ballyshannon's river : ERNE. Not a shore bird?

15. Tiger's concern : BOGEY. I thought of the golfer immediately.

20. Enter hurriedly : TEAR IN.

23. Brand for shooters : KODAK. Fun clue!

24. Polishing agent : EMERY.

25. "I pass" : NO BID.

26. "Kidding!" : "NOT!"

27. Make fun of : RAG ON.

28. Lugubrious chime : KNELL. Lugubrious = dismal, mournful, sad, melancholy.

29. Antibacterial brand : LYSOL.

30. They're not optional : MUSTS.

32. Transistor's forerunner : TRIODE. and 43-Down. Kids' rides : TRIKES. Did three kids TRIODE TRIKES?

35. Longish club : FOUR IRON. Rich is a big golf fanatic.

36. Call for a pizza, say : ORDER OUT. I started filling "ORDER in," but didn't have enough letters!

37. "___ wind, ___ rain -- ___ golf!": Scottish adage : NAENAENAE. Apropos, since the Scottish Open was last weekend and it was pretty windy and rainy.  How can you have golf in Scotland without wind and rain?

44. Lara of "Tomb Raider" : CROFT. Nailed it!

45. Mystify : ADDLE.

46. "This means war!" : "IT'S ON!"

47. His ___: big shot : NIBS. (Not "nybs." See 53-Across.)

48. Morales of "Caprica" : ESAI.

49. It deals with what's left : WILL. Fun clue for a gloomy subject!

50. Actress Blanchett : CATE. I loved her depiction of Katherine Hepburn in "The Aviator."

51. Kindle competitor : NOOK. Nope, I have an iPad. So does Dudley!

52. Mex. miss : SRTA. Señorita.

55. K+, e.g. : ION. K = Potassium. If it loses an electron, it becomes the positively charged potassium ion. In a bunsen burner, potassium emits a beautiful lilac hue!

56. Asian holiday : TET.

That's it, until next week!



Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

I didn't get much sleep last night and this puzzle was nearly too much for my sleep-deprived brain to handle. I did manage to finish unassisted at the end, but it was quite a struggle. So much that was out of my wheelhouse today!

I did manage to figure out the theme, but at the end I was staring at NE_DIRECTIONS crossing ___L and my brain just crashed. I've never seen "GLEE" and thought that 47A had to be NEW DIRECTIONS, except that made no sense to me whatsoever. It wasn't until I finally guessed that it was actually the name of the actual singing group on the show that things finally clicked. Still didn't know ISIDRO or BALLOU, but the WILL took care of that once I had that W.

Oh -- and I also had AMAZE instead of ADDLE for the longest time, which I only replaced once I figured out the theme and realized that 47A had to end with DIRECTIONS instead of MIRECTIONS...

EHUD, ANDROPOV, ZAG (???), ERBE (clued as a river instead of a bird), BORABORA, GAYE, TEARIN, and RAGON all gave me fits today. But I persevered and got it done!


River Doc said...

Happy Thursday everybody!

DAMN! My death KNELL today was in the HHH Northeast corner. Not knowing my KGB Chairmen (BOGEY men) as well as I should have (yeah, right!), I typed in froSTy, usRAIl, and rEsONATE instead of ADESTE, DTRAIN, and DETONATE….

I also kept on trying to squeeze NO WHAMMY into the space reserved for BIG MONEY…. AmazE also stuck around for too long instead of ADDLE…. Is it Thursday or Friday…?

At least all theme answers were correct….

Mom would sometimes refer to our aloof kitty as “His NIBS”….

I stop and ask for directions all the time. Maybe it’s just that I can’t stand the colossal waste of time trying to figure out which way to go. One common trait of winning teams on The Amazing Race is that they are constantly asking for directions….

imho, KENNY Gorelick was a lot more interesting when he was just the saxophone blower for the Seattle-based Jeff Lorber Fusion – here’s a sample of what I mean….

Anonymous said...

"Glee club on 'Glee'": NEW DIRECTIONS.

This clue/answer is biased against heterosexual men.

Dudley said...

Hello Puzzlers -

First, yesterday was so busy I missed congratulating Ninja C.C. for another clever puzzle, and MB for another brain alignment session. Thanks ladies!

Now on to today. A little of WBS. I began this puzz in the wee hours, but was too addled to handle it. After a few hours of sleep I found I could manage better. Lots of unknowns. Never heard of Press Your Luck, never saw Glee, no idea what American Universalism is, let alone its inventor. I'm not clear what it means to order out; ordering in makes more sense to me. Ultimately squeaked out a winner, though.

Morning, Marti! Yes, I've had to ask friends for money, but generally only in a small way (such as when discovering an empty wallet at lunchtime). I don't like it much. And yes, I've asked for directions under some conditions. Don't like that much, either.

Thanks for Duke Ellington! I think that's the first time I've heard A Train done as a trio. The rhythm in the intro section was interesting. Kenny G, on the other hand, appeals to me about as much as a flat tire.

Cheers All

Hahtoolah said...

Good Morning, Marti and friends. Fun Thursday puzzles. I quickly caught on to the theme.

We are Glee fans, so I knew NEW DIRECTIONS. How sad that Cory Monteith, the actor of one of the main characters on the show, died this week.

Yuri ANDROPOV was in the news ALOT during his tenure with the KGB, so after getting a few letters, I could fill in the rest of his name.

I didn't know that BORA BORA was a honeymoon destination, but it sounds like a fun place to go.

We ORDERed OUT for a pizza just last night.

ESIA Morales appeared earlier this week.

Barnes and Noble is having financial difficulties over its various NOOK products. I have a Nook, but generally prefer to read a paper book over an e-book.

QOD: Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world. ~ Nelson Mandela (July 18, 1918)


TTP said...

Urban planner's concern wasn't SPRAWL.

Lugubrious crime. What ? Oh. Chime. How sad.

At Tiger's concern, I thought SERGIO. Nailed TRIODE with the T.

Had BIG MONEY and ENGINE TROUBLE, so when the theme fell, FORGIVENESS and DIRECTIONS came easy with just a few crossing perps. Unfortunately DEBT and NEW weren't as quick.

DNF. 1st) by not knowing ANDROPOV. Had it all but the P from RAPA.

2nd) West side failure. Spelled it EMORY again. Shooter's brand totally threw me off with KODAK answer. "I pass" is the electronic gizmo that lets' you drive through the toll collection booths in Illinois. And I'm sure with this well-read audience, someone here has heard of playwright KYD; I have not. Red Letter help changed that O to an E so had -E-T Forgiveness and DEBT came, which led to that area finally falling. Still...

3rd) SW corner also did me in. ISIDRO, BALLOU and NIBS were unknowns.

Will have to read the write up and comments much later today. Busy day and meetings starting early.

Lemonade714 said...

Julian Lim always makes me work so hard. It is discouraging when the NW is that hard. But they are fair and we learn and then get to read Marti's mind wanderings so it is all good. ESAI was very popular in 2009 puzzles and now he is back.

Sad timing about a GLEE clue, enjoy your day.

Mari said...

Good Morning Everybody!

Yikes, this was a brain buster.

EHUD, RAPA, TRIODE, ANDROPOV, KYD, UDON, ISIDRO, BALLOU, KANT, ERNE. It sounds like this puzzle was constructed in a foreign language. Oddly enough, I knew ADESTE, BORA BORA, ENT, KLM and TET.

Some fun clues for me were:
- 32A: Card for Tomorrow: TAROT
- 23D: Brand for Shooters: KODAK
- 49D: It Deals with What's Left: WILL

If this puzzle was a precursor to tomorrow's offering I'm doomed. Ring the lugubrious chimes. (And to top it off, I couldn't read my first captcha.)

Have a nice day! :)

Yellowrocks said...

Fun puzzle and interesting write up. A literal DNF for me. I found the NW challenging. I ran out of time because I had to drive Alan to work, intending to come back to it. I was so eager to read Marti's work that I clicked on it and forgot to finish. 4D!! I would have had a chance because I had a partial for BORA BORA.
I didn't know KYD. I guess my education was lacking there. Did anyone read it? Is it good?
I love UDON, a gimmie.

Husker Gary said...

ADDLE, of course! I went with ADAZE in honor of Marti and had no idea on ISIDRO and BALLOU (Cat Ballou’s uncle?) 2 bad cells and life goes on and I HAVE asked for directions!! Sometimes MapQuest either gives bad routes or goes to places that don’t exist.

-Excerpt from 50’s TV show YOU ASKED FOR IT
-I remember the Press Your Luck scandal where this guy memorized the board patterns. This seems like card counting in Vegas.
-Sputtering ENGINE TROUBLE can sometimes be a tougher fix than one that won’t start at all
-I’m having some Folgers NECTAR of the gods right now
-Why are all these TAROT fortune tellers in seedy little shops instead of on the beach in BORA BORA after hitting the lotto numbers?
-Will Joann put me on sale if I’m IRR?
-Nobody beat Mike Tyson TOE TO TOE. Long armed boxers kept him away.
-ZONING laws can be changed if you have enough juice
-We still studied TRIODES when I took my first electronics course. Damn, I’m old.
-My FOUR IRON is my 190 yd club
-KINDLE/NOOK cartoon
-QOD comment – people who have been in the dark for centuries now have access to modern media and want to change their world

Anonymous said...

Tough puzzle- but fun as Julian Lim puzzles are. Hands up for getting stuck at Kyd and no bid.

I think it was the Thursday cluing that made Andropov harder. After being KGB head, he followed Brezhnev and was before Gorbachev as General Secretary of the Communist Party of the USSR.

thehondohurricane said...


This was a bear and in the end it won. The SW corner never came together. Had NET (a wag) instead of NEW, IS-ERO instead of ISIDRO & ADeLE (another wag) instead of ADDLE.

Other then that, I managed to suss everything else, but it wasn't easy. Frankly, just wasn't into puzzledom today.

I hope 15D Tiger's Concern/Bogey becomes a reality at Muirfield this weekend. Wonderful golf game, but he's never been my favorite.

Lot to do today, so our water system screws up.

Service can't get here until tomorrow unless we shell out $200 for an emergency call. Needless to say, wife is VERY upset.

Hope to read comments and Marti's write up later.

Spitzboov said...

Good morning everyone.

Liked the theme but did not use it for the solve. There was some good fill like KNELL and NIBS.
But ZAG stank. An S curve is not a zigzag. An S-curve has a continuous 1st derivative; a zigzag's is discontinuous where the zig becomes zag. When ships avoid submarines, they steer a zigzag pattern; not an S-curve pattern. (I doubt there is an S-Curve in the Signal Book).

Marti - I think the A TRAIN goes to Queens, toward JFK.

Have a good day. Ours will be 92º again.

Vidwan827 said...

This was a difficult puzzle for me. I know my limitations. Thank you Marti for your charming commentary and your explanations.

Some of the clues were very smart and cute - like WILL, KODAK and DETONATE - but I had nothing to go on. Oh Well. 'Four Iron' was a complete fog, until I read the explanation.

Have a nice day, you all.

desper-otto said...

Good morning!

Yes, Harold joined us again today, so I'm late to the dance.

I thought this one was headed for DNF-land, but the perps offered just enough to puzzle out the unknowns.

NIBS reminded me of "Her nibs, Miss Georgia Gibbs" -- Garry Moore called her that.

I don't have a NOOK, but I like my Kindle better than paper books. When I fall asleep while reading, I don't lose my place, and the Kindle is smart enough to go to sleep too.

Is KLM still around? That used to be my favorite way to get to Europe -- nonstop Houston to Amsterdam.

Do some of us see the blog in different fonts from others? In Marti's UDON comments all I see is two little squares where I'm sure something else is supposed to appear. I guess my PC isn't as smart as Marti's IPad.

Besides Cat, the only BALLOU I've ever heard of is Sullivan Ballou, a Civil War soldier who wrote a very moving letter to his wife back home.

Montana said...

Thanks Julian and Marti.
This was a tough puzzle and a DNF, but as I went across and down and across and down with red letter help on, I filled in a lot of squares. I did get the theme early on, but there were too many clues I didn't know, same as many of you have mentioned.

After reading the expo, however, it was a great start to a Thursday morning.

Waiting for your news, JD,

Have a good day, all,

Abejo said...

Good morning, folks. Thank you, Julian Lim, for answer puzzle. Thank you, Marti, for the swell review.

Got started easily with EHUD. Skipped ZAG until I had a perp. ADESTE was not bad with a couple perps.

BIG MONEY came way late. I am not familiar with that show. The other theme answers were not too bad.

NIBS was easy. That was a term used a lot by us back in Erie, referring to others, of course.

Used to see OMOO a lot.

Not familiar with KENNY G. Perped and wagged it.

ANDROPOV was my last. I had it close, but had to cycle through bunch of letters. Once I had it I remembered the name.

On my way to Bloomington-Normal for the third time in four weeks. After this, done for a while.

See you tomorrow.



HeartRx said...

d-otto, what a beautiful letter from Sullivan BALLOU. I don't think I will ever forget that name now...

PK said...

Hi Y'all! The NW gave me BIG TROUBLE! Caused my cw confidence to EBB. EHUD? Is that the first or last name? HOI was my first fill, but when everything else on the grid was filled but NW, I had to red-letter run that name to get a start.

The rest of the grid filled much easier. Good one, Julian. Thanks, Marti, I'll go back for the links after this.

My carol was in English: "Oh come" until red-letters showed a NEW DIRECTION.

ANDROPOV was all perps except I WAGd the "V". Never heard of BALLOU, but had the first 4 letters and WAGd the end.

I was on the right track with Tiger. I watch golf almost every weekend. Couldn't think of BOGEY to save me for a little bit. When I got to "drive" I was still thinking of golf so didn't come up with URGE. However, it could have been golf. Who had more URGEs than Tiger? FOUR IRON flowed in without much thought.

"Half an S curve?" I tried "uey". I agree with Spitz, ZAG really threw us a curve. ZAG is straight.

PK said...

HG: Joann would do better to put you on Dulcolax if you are IRR.

ANON at 6:51: What you talkin' 'bout? Makes no sense whatsoever.

EMERY is my yardman's name. I don't think of that material as a polishing agent, more of a grinder.

Lucina said...

Hi, Marti! Hello, puzzlers all.

Ironically, I didn't get ARI as I was thinking of Chase in NY but don't know why???

Thank you, Julian Lim for giving me a very nice sashay down puzzledom today. Like PK, HOI was my first fill, then a sashay here and a swing there until the NE filled. And like Hatoolah I remember ANDROPOV from the news. RAPA Nui slithered out from somewhere in my brain.

My TV preferences do not include Glee or BIG MONEY but sussing them was easily helped with good perps.

Vermeer's subjects are fairly predictable as Marti said, so A RED Hat seemed logical.

As an English Lit major once destined to teach in high school I thought I had read every 15th & 16th century author but somehow missed KYD! For me it's literally a Spanish tragedy!

Mari, you always list the same clues I like, too.

Asking for DIRECTIONS is no longer necessary for me as long as the GPS is on!! I love that gadget.

Bye for now. I hope you all have a pleasant Thursday!

Lucina said...

Marti, I forgot to mention your always sparkling commentary. Thank you.

chin said...

Brand for shooters was clever but my mind went first to "Stoly".

Anonymous said...

G'Day All:

Mr. Lim wow and ouch. I guess I ASKed FOR IT by continuing after 1a. After six (6) googles all over the grid, I still got a DNF in the SW corner. Fun theme tho.

Rx, thanks for the writeup.

Husker: We still looked at TRIODES in the late 80's to start our understanding circuits. By senior year we were calculating dopeing and building chips from the substrate up.

With in-car GPS no need to argue with spouse over stopping for directioins. The last time I had to ask was when Apple Maps sent me 10 miles in the wrong direction in a rental.



Anonymous said...

Isn't a hyphen length an'en,' and a DASH length an 'em'? It's due to the length of movable type.
Ted, Dayton

James Emery said...

PK at 10.10 - The difference between polishing and grinding - is only a matter of degree and fine-ness.

If the grinding material - say Emery, in this case, is rougher or a larger grain size - it takes more of the material and hence - grinds. As on a grinding wheel.

If the Emery has a greater fine- ness, smaller grit, almost like fine flour, then it takes 'out' less material, and therefore polishes. Especially if it is a fine paste on cloth.

Emery, is actually a mixture of minerals, mostly Corundum, Alum. Oxide and is mainly mined in another CW clue - the Greek island of Naxos - which we've had recently. It is being replaced by synthetic minerals like Silicon Carbide, which are even 'harder'.

Ol' Man Keith said...

I call it Goldilocks. A good, solid Thursday job, not too easy, not too hard, but ju-ust right!

Today I learned ANDROPOV, ADDLE, BALLOU, ERNE & ISIDRO. I liked the "lugubrious" cluing for KNELL and the double-take clue for NEW DIRECTIONS.

On to Friday!

Misty said...

Oh dear, a Thursday DNF--not a great way to approach the weekend. I may switch from the "dreaded Silkie" to the "dreaded Lim." But I actually made a lot more progress than I expected, with trouble only in the NW. Never heard of "Press Your Luck" and of course figured that the shooter's brand was some sort of gun rather than a camera. But I did get all of the themes and the reveal--so that was great. And I enjoyed the interview with Julian. And Lucina is right, your commentary is always sparkly, Marti!

I couldn't think of KYD, which was frustrating because I knew "The Spanish Tragedy" was a 17th century work.

I got BOGEY even though I've never golfed in my life. But I've started playing Fairway Solitaire which uses a lot of golf terms so that I now know what a BIRDIE, EAGLE, and Bogey refers to. Live and learn.

Have a great Thursday, everybody!

Ol' Man Keith said...

I'm not sure how Anonymous senses a bias against hetero males in the reference to "Glee."

It's just a passing observation, but I'll bet there are more straight guys shown in the TV show than in the real life scenes they depict. I guess the producers feel they still need to soft-peddle their message for a mass audience.

PK said...

DO: Sullivan Ballou letter is very moving. I have a Civil War era letter from the chaplain at a hospital in Norfolk, Virginia, telling my husband's great grandmother that her husband had died of disentery. A Union soldier from New York State, he had been captured and held at the notorious Andersonville prison. She was left with five boys to raise. 120 years later I found the letter tucked into her son's desk, read it and burst into tears. His descendants had never seen it and weren't told what happened to the soldier. His son was apparently ashamed of the unheroic death.

PK said...

Brand for shooters is retro, I guess, since I haven't seen a Kodak camera in 30 years. The company went out of business just a few years ago. Very sad! I had a
friend who worked for Kodak back east until they downsized him. A young man, he never recovered financially and died before he was 50.

Boy, I must have the glooms today.

Lucina said...

My digital camera is a KODAK and it's about 10 years old. Now that cameras are small and slim, it's considered obsolete. It works very well, though.

Tinbeni said...

I enjoyed the Julian Lim interview and Marti's write-up & informative links more than my DNF-Ink Blot creation.

chin @10:54; I'm with ya thinkin' 23-D, 'Brand for shooters' would be a libation.

Well "It's Five O'clock Somewhere!"
Soooooooo, Cheers!!!

Irish Miss said...

Hi Everyone:

Late to the dance due to errands, etc. This was one of the most difficult puzzles, for me, anyway, in a long, long time. I am proud to say I finished w/o help, but I'm not proud of how long it took me.

Have never seen Glee and have never even heard of Press Your Luck. I did know Andropov but was not familiar with Thomas Kyd or Hosea Ballou. Anyway, Julian, you certainly challenged the brain cells today and, Marti, your expo made it all crystal clear, so thank you, also.

Stay cool!

HeartRx said...

Anon @ 11:15, you are right about the moveable type. But a dash is not a hyphen. A hyphen is shorter than a dash.

The “en dash” is the width of the lower-case “n,” and the “em dash” is the width of the upper-case “M.” They are both called a “dash.”

…but I did use two hyphens in the preceding descriptions. (^0^)

HeartRx said...

James Emery @ 11:16, it just amazes me the bits of information I learn here every day. I never thought of polishing vs. grinding as being degrees of fineness. But it makes sense - thanks!

I remain Anonymous for no reason said...

According to sources, including Wikipedia, the painting 'Girl in the red hat', attributed to Vermeer, which is the National museum in D.C.

There are some serious academic and scholarly doubts that the painting was in fact painted by Vermeer.

Just saying.

Of course, that in no way detracts from today's puzzle.

Husker Gary said...

-PK, glad you caught that IRR reference
-George Costanza at Kruger SMOOTHING (first minute)
-Our bus driver in Nashville, TN was trying to find the hotel with his GPS and it took us to an empty field south and east of where we were supposed to be. I called the hotel on my cell, found the actual location on Google Map and co-piloted the driver there.
-We drove by radio financial guru Dave Ramsey’s little “shack” on that end of town
-I wonder how that Vermeer guy got all those dogs to sit still when he painted the portrait of them playing poker. What? He may not have done that one either ;-)?

Kodak employee said...

@PK Kodak is out of business??

I better tell my boss and co-workers that we are out of a job!

PK said...

Kodak employee: If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Did they just stop making Kodachrome film? Is that what I'm confused about. I thought the whole business was closed. I can remember discussing this with someone who also thought the whole thing went down the tubes. Glad if it didn't.

Dudley said...

Marti - adding to the grinding & polishing info: the making of optical elements takes those processes to extremes. Because glass is hard, and because the final result must be so good, there are many degrees of fineness of the grinding and polishing media that must be stepped through. The optician chooses the materials with great care. Once finished, a high quality element will have a high shine and no evidence of leftover scratches from any of the "grits". Because you are near the old American Optical, I bet that even today you could find dozens and dozens of people who have done that work.

Avg Joe said...

Woodworking also uses varying degrees of grit. From grinding, with a belt sander, down to polishing with Rottenstone

Anonymous said...

Ave Joe: Thanks for the link on Rottenstone. I noticed it said polishing metal - I wonder if that's what was in Brasso back in the Army days? Anyone still have a tin of it around to look at to quell my curiosity?


Spitzboov said...

-T @1606 - re: Brasso.

From the Mat. Data Safety Sheet the ingredients are:

Section 2. Composition and Information on Ingredients

Dennis said...

I love the smell of Brasso in the morning. It smells like......INSPECTION!

Avg Joe said...

None of our senses are as quick to evoke memories as that of smell. I can't hear the word "Brasso" without smelling ammonia....and I was never in the service.

Per Wiki, it has undergone some changes: Brasso. But it still contains Silica, so it's got things in common with rottenstone. It's also interesting that it's had different formulae in different countries, including a revamped formula here in 2008. Another product that sounds promising is the type for gadgets. Polishing plastic is something I've had a need for many times over the years. Better pick some of that up.

CrossEyedDave said...


I hate to say DNF, because I did actually finish the puzzle. But I had to Google a bunch of names to do it. (TDNF?) Technical DNF?) Oh Well, it doesn't matter, because at 28D I had no idea what Lugubrious was. But it said "chime" so I lightly inked in "bell" with the 1st letter "S" because I thought the Netherlands carrier was SAS. When SAS turned into KLM & kept looking at "KBell" thinking, what the heck is that, a Klaxon or something????

All I can say is "Oh Well."

Re: Yesterday, I Googled Eric Claptons nickname "Slowhand," interesting (& ouch!)

Also, If you did not see AWOL's Diving Giraffes @ 8:11pm you are missing something...

Back to today, I have asked for directions, but after the 3rd turn my eyes glaze over & I would be lost anyway, so why ask...

Desper-otto @8:58am Wow!
That is the epitome of why I read this Blog! (hmm, I probably used "epitome" wrong, a little help pls?)

HeartRx, your power blackout made me look at your Bio to see where you where, & I must say, your reading interest list was amusing.

Last, (but not least) My paper had a QOD:

"I'm nuts & I know it. But so long as I make 'em laugh, they aint going to lock me up." - Red Skelton July 18th, 1913-1997

desper-otto said...

Avg Joe, what's the name of that product that polishes plastic. I'm interested. Our garden tub is "scratchy" after some agressive scouring by somebody...

desper-otto said...

Forgot to mention that rottenstone + linseed oil makes an awesome finishing compound, but don't put the rags in the trash. Just sayin'

Dudley said...

CED 5:13 -

I used to use Technical DNF under some conditions, until getting a scolding from a certain self-appointed blog marshal.

I see it this way: the gold standard is a correct completion of the puzzle with no outside help. A DNF to me is abandonment of the puzzle, incomplete, for whatever reason. Technical DNF applies to a correct solution that was derived with help, either consultation with outside resources or with red letters turned on. I think admitting Technical DNF is a sign of honest sportsmanship, but evidently there are those who don't agree,

What say you, intelligent Puzzlers?

Dudley said...

D Otto -

Perhaps you saw the recent PBS program about King Tut, specifically the odd condition of his mummy. The desiccated skin of the mummy is said to look charred; researchers have looked into the cause. The leading theory is that his mummification was hurried, for some reason, and that his wrappings were uncharacteristically wet with linseed oil. The resulting reaction accounts for the charred tissue. Extensive tests were done in England, with mighty convincing results.

Anonymous said...


Nobody cares if you DNF, TDNF, used red letter, googled or peaked at the solution.

What I need to know is what make and model of pen or pencil you used!

Bill G. said...

Dudley, what you said makes perfect sense to me, but to be honest, I don't worry much about it. If you have fun, exercise your brain and maybe learn something, it's all good. According to your thoughtful definitions, I never get a DNF 'cause I always get finished somehow; Google or red letters if I need them. So I suppose I finish about half of the puzzles (on my iMac) with no help, usually Monday through Wednesday or Thursday. Then maybe a TDNF on the other days (always on Saturday). I really don't care about anybody else's TDNF or solving time though. I just enjoy myself and occasionally complain a little about clues or Naticks or otherwise agree with everybody else (WEES). Then it's time to visit with everybody about their important lives outside of the puzzle. But as I said, your TDNF definition makes perfect sense to me.

Lucina said...

Dudley and BillG:
I completely agree with both of you as to whether it's a DNF or TDNF. Why it should matter to anyone is unfathomable to me.

As noted, researching for an obscure or unknown answer is a learning experience and for me that is important. In my early days of solving I kept a dictionary or other reference book beside me until I was knowledgeable enough to proceed without them. I also developed some word building techniques that help me succeed with the solve.

Pookie said...

Dudley @ 7:16
I think another category should be what I cried halfway through today.
Hated ZAG, also. It's NOT half of an S curve. Never heard of His NIBS either.
Well at least I knew Yusef Lateef from a few days back.
Gave up today. No fun.

Avg Joe said...

DO, refer to my link on Brasso and read about Brasso Gadgetcare. From your brief description, I doubt it's what you might need. I was thinking about an old turntable lid and maybe even headlight Lenses. Any type of plastic that's occluded because of scratching or oxidation.

Dudley, I agree with your assessment. Sounds good to me.

Spitzboov said...

pas @ 1916:

His NIBS Bio

Yet another anon said...

Dudley at 1917 Hrs.

A Technical DNF is what happened when I forgot to take a certain pharmaceutical formulation ... Err, pill, ahead of time.

( - So, now it's MY fault ?? )

Captcha. Outubond

Bill G. said...

Lucina, I completely agree with you too (as I always do). How's your weather? The sea breeze is keeping it tolerable around here. It was about 76 today.

Pas, I got ZAG OK though I agree with you that it doesn't seem quite right. I was thinking that a half an S curve ought to be a CEE.

PK said...

During my remodeling years, I did a lot of sanding with various papers, emery cloth and steel wool of various courseness. I did all the stripping and refinishing or finishing of all the woodwork in my old house and my son's new house (except his kitchen cupboards came prefinished). Lot of work that I really enjoyed seeing it turn out beautifully. Picked some good brains to learn how to do it.

thehondohurricane said...

I keep my philosophy simple........ whether it is an error, or a blank it's a DNF. Don;t ever resort to outside help while the solving is still "in play". Red letter assistance, googling, etc only occurs after I've admitted defeat.

Lucina said...

Bill, it's really oppressive, high temps and humidity. We had a brief reprieve Monday when it rained. I stay indoors unless absolutely necessary to go out. Please send some ocean breeze this way. LOL.

aka thelma said...

Lucina.... it didn't even rain here.... :( please send some this way when you can... :)


Anonymous said...

Spitzboov: Thanks for the Brasso Breakdown.

Dennis: Smell of Brasso... Funny.

DNF, TDNF, etc:
I have a check system. If I google it / get outside help, its a check. This typically happens after Tuesday; I'm a dyslexic engineer. I don't know music outside of popular classical and rock-n-roll and have very limited knowledge of popular culture/movies/movie stars. I do x-words because I love word-play and any type of puzzle. So if a "check" or 6 gets me to the theme / aha, then I had fun and reinforced letter patterns to aid with spelling/dyslexia issues.

BTW, I'm also agnostic. When I suffer from insomnia, I'm up all night asking "Is there really a Dog?" (rim-shot).